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Post by lugnutz on Oct 12, 2006 22:59:17 GMT -5
Apparently the 2 buck system didn't produce to the expectations of the DNR or else the OBR wouldn't have be introduced. And since the OBR's existance is extremely debateable whether its actually working or not. Its obvious to me, that other changes need to be made, regarless if the buck bag limit is 1 or 2.
I think we need to be trying to figure out ways to get what was intended when the OBR was introduced, but failed to produce the expected harvest numbers.
Debating back n forth, and argueing whether or not the OBR is working, is a waste of time, since neither of them works!
I'm as passionate about hunting as anyone, and i've let my personal thoughts cloud the BIG picture.
Lug
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Post by Decatur on Oct 13, 2006 6:36:37 GMT -5
Good point!
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Oct 13, 2006 6:48:30 GMT -5
I feel your pain lug.
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Post by racktracker on Oct 13, 2006 7:38:22 GMT -5
The two buck system was fine for the DNR and the herd too.
The DNR gave the OBR to a vocal bunch.
When the IBA came out in favor of it that clinched the deal as it was the two season bowhunters that were affected.
Funny that they took a position then and wont now. My feeling is that they got burned on this and are now finally realizing it.
Archery harvest numbers versus gun harvest numbers don't lie.
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Post by dec on Oct 13, 2006 8:09:59 GMT -5
You want bigger and better bucks? Pro-obr or anti-obr, does not matter, there are a couple things that have to happen regardless if we have a 1 buck, 2 buck, or 10 buck system. First .... STOP SHOOTING SMALL BUCKS. Second .... The shotgun season would have to be shortened and moved to the very end of November/first of December. Possible Third .... Shorten muzzle loader season. Those first two things would definitely have to happen. The third would help it. I'm not proposing this. I feel OBR has divided us enough and such a radical proposal of reducing gun opportunity would send shock waves through the community. But if the DNR stepped up to the table and proposed this, I'd be all it. Actually, you could get away with not touching the gun season, if ... PEOPLE WOULD STOP SHOOTING LITTLE BUCKS. It is not rocket science.  |
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Post by racktracker on Oct 13, 2006 8:25:19 GMT -5
Actually, you could get away with not touching the gun season, if ... PEOPLE WOULD STOP SHOOTING LITTLE BUCKS. It is not rocket science. I agree with you on this. It was and is happening. I don't know of anyone that has been at it awhile that still kills the same bucks they did when they started out. Unless they started out as trophy hunters. It is a natural progression in most deer hunters's careers. I was told a long time ago by a man much wiser than myself when he said " If you ever want to kill a big buck, you need to stop shooting the little bucks". I took his advice and never looked back. That is why I am "Racktracker".  |
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 13, 2006 8:53:17 GMT -5
Choice between small buck & big doe:
Big Doe, every time.
Choice between X-pointer and doe with more mass?
Big Doe, every time.
Why did horns get to be so important?
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Post by Sleazy E on Oct 13, 2006 9:42:15 GMT -5
You want bigger and better bucks? Pro-obr or anti-obr, does not matter, there are a couple things that have to happen regardless if we have a 1 buck, 2 buck, or 10 buck system. STOP SHOOTING SMALL BUCKS. I think this is would count as preaching to the chior. We are all here because we care about the quality of our deer and we all want nice big bucks on our property. Here is the problem..... deer don't just stay on our properties... those darn things wanna run around like they have free range or something. I know that I let the little young ones walk on my property and require that everyone with me do the same. I do this only to find out that the spike buck that I let walk was killed on the next hill top over by that property owner. As far as the EHD goes I strongly believe that we as a state have brought this on oursleves. It is mother natures way of saying ... ok well there are too many whitetail deer here so i will have to thin them out. If the DNR needs to do anything at all it should put the OBR and 2BR to a vote... and worry about the bigger problem at hand.... properly managing the doe population so ensure that our deer do not become diseased again next year whiping out even more of them in a truely horrific fashion..... OK I am done venting. |
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 13, 2006 10:11:35 GMT -5
Yeah, it's kind of funny. You get too many deer so you get disease and car-kill, yet you have to get an extra permit to kill the does.
IIRC one buck can breed an awful lot of does.
My version of the "OBR" in an overpopulated area would be "Fill a Doe tag First" THAT will lower birth rates far more than whacking bucks ever will.
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Post by js2397 on Oct 13, 2006 10:14:00 GMT -5
I think if you kill the county limit you should get an extra buck tag.
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Post by indianahick on Oct 13, 2006 10:45:19 GMT -5
As for the little bucks, ages 2.5 - 3.5 what you younger hunters ages 45 and under; especially 30 and under need to realize and think about is that us older hunters. Those that started in the 60's, or 70's were taught is that the older bucks. Your trophy antlered ones are the the breeders for the deer herd. IN other words do not shoot the 4-6 year old bucks. Take the younger ones and those that are only 6 point at 3.5. Now then we are getting better, but those of us that are primarily meat hunters will tell you that a deer that weighs from 170-200 are the best eaters. Those younger than that are like eating that speacel meat where the cattle are fed milk and not allowed to do anything.
Back then you did not have all of those pen hunting shows that yap about rack size all the time. Fred Bear did not yap about rack size as the main reason for hunting. And yes there were nothing but trophy hunters back then too. Chuck Adams.
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 13, 2006 10:52:19 GMT -5
You want bigger and better bucks? Pro-obr or anti-obr, does not matter, there are a couple things that have to happen regardless if we have a 1 buck, 2 buck, or 10 buck system. First .... STOP SHOOTING SMALL BUCKS. Second .... The shotgun season would have to be shortened and moved to the very end of November/first of December. Possible Third .... Shorten muzzle loader season. Those first two things would definitely have to happen. The third would help it. I'm not proposing this. I feel OBR has divided us enough and such a radical proposal of reducing gun opportunity would send shock waves through the community. But if the DNR stepped up to the table and proposed this, I'd be all it. Actually, you could get away with not touching the gun season, if ... PEOPLE WOULD STOP SHOOTING LITTLE BUCKS. It is not rocket science. Two things here dec- First, even though you aren`t proposing these things, the things you`ve just proposed would make it likely that even less deer would be killed, and in light of the EHD outbreak, would killing less deer each season make sense? Secondly, when did deer hunting become about killing big bucks? I know that many hunters generally progress through the stages and eventually, (in theory) wind up where they`ll only kill tropheys, but not me-and I believe there are many like me. I love deer hunting, I love shooting deer, bucks and does, I love the flavor of venison, I love to run my hand down the hide of my just killed deer, and it doesn`t require a big buck for me to love it. It`s fine that you all like to kill big bucks, and want to hold out for them, but all of us aren`t there, and I even believe there`s a down side to the rack mania. In fact, a downside on several levels-but anyway, not everyone cares if there are big bucks, or are obsessed with killing them. Some of us love deer hunting for what it`s always been. |
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Post by Decatur on Oct 13, 2006 11:06:52 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more Hunter480
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 13, 2006 11:10:08 GMT -5
It`s fine that you all like to kill big bucks, and want to hold out for them, but all of us aren`t there, and I even believe there`s a down side to the rack mania. In fact, a downside on several levels-but anyway, not everyone cares if there are big bucks, or are obsessed with killing them. Some of us love deer hunting for what it`s always been. Amen, and pass the doe backstrap. ;D |
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Post by hoyt1166 on Oct 13, 2006 12:11:32 GMT -5
You want bigger and better bucks? Pro-obr or anti-obr, does not matter, there are a couple things that have to happen regardless if we have a 1 buck, 2 buck, or 10 buck system. First .... STOP SHOOTING SMALL BUCKS. Second .... The shotgun season would have to be shortened and moved to the very end of November/first of December. Possible Third .... Shorten muzzle loader season. Those first two things would definitely have to happen. The third would help it. I'm not proposing this. I feel OBR has divided us enough and such a radical proposal of reducing gun opportunity would send shock waves through the community. But if the DNR stepped up to the table and proposed this, I'd be all it. Actually, you could get away with not touching the gun season, if ... PEOPLE WOULD STOP SHOOTING LITTLE BUCKS. It is not rocket science. Two things here dec- First, even though you aren`t proposing these things, the things you`ve just proposed would make it likely that even less deer would be killed, and in light of the EHD outbreak, would killing less deer each season make sense? Secondly, when did deer hunting become about killing big bucks? I know that many hunters generally progress through the stages and eventually, (in theory) wind up where they`ll only kill tropheys, but not me-and I believe there are many like me. I love deer hunting, I love shooting deer, bucks and does, I love the flavor of venison, I love to run my hand down the hide of my just killed deer, and it doesn`t require a big buck for me to love it. It`s fine that you all like to kill big bucks, and want to hold out for them, but all of us aren`t there, and I even believe there`s a down side to the rack mania. In fact, a downside on several levels-but anyway, not everyone cares if there are big bucks, or are obsessed with killing them. Some of us love deer hunting for what it`s always been. The opposite is just as true. There are those who love hunting as much as you do but do enjoy the large racks as well. It doesn't make them wrong; just different. However, I've always felt that if you have big racked deer, you're dealing with a deer that has great genetics that you want to pass on to future generations. There's really no way in knowing if a 2.5 year old deer will be that special one if it's shot. What I've really come to conclude is that the reasons we hunt don't make us right or wrong; just different. For every reason a guy chooses to be a meat hunter another can choose to be a trophy hunter. Each of them have valid reasons for choosing how they hunt and should be treated with the same respect. The hard part is in both sides seeing each other's reasoning and respecting it. You don't have to necessarily agree with it, but you should respect it. With respect comes a certain amount of understanding on both sides of the aisle. |
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Post by dec on Oct 13, 2006 12:46:32 GMT -5
Hunter480 you just don't get it do you. You have this need to bash on any one of us that likes to hunt mature bucks with big racks.
I'm sure that you LOVE deer hunting. So do I. Deer hunting, waterfowl hunting, and turkey hunting are the three things that I am more passionate about anything in life beyond my wife, kids, and God. I love to hunt does, I love hunting bucks, I love letting young bucks walk thinking "I could have, but it was you're lucky day", and I love hunting mature bucks. Yet, somehow you (among a couple others on here) manage to demonize people like me because we choose to only actually shoot big bucks, regardless of the Indiana bag limit. OBR or no OBR, there is absolutely nothing wrong with desiring that there be big bucks to hunt. Right now I could give a rat's ___ about the OBR argument, so let's not even go there.
I have never or will never rip on anyone for shooting a small buck. I have from day one said that harvesting a deer is a very personal thing. Shoot what you want. HOWEVER, DO NOT let me here anyone whine about never seeing or being able to shoot a big antlered buck, if that person chooses to shoot a small buck. You can not have big bucks if you shoot small ones.
This thread was started by someone in reference to ideas about increasing the harvest of mature deer. (If that was not Lugnutz intent, then let him chime in and correct me on this.) Therefore, I offered up a suggestion on how to increase the number of MATURE bucks. I did not intend to start any OBR debate or get into a debate on the ethics of shooting a young buck. The direct question was asked and I offered an idea. It is a FACT, that you can not have big bucks if you shoot little bucks.
No, you can not eat horns. Yes, every deer is a trophy in the eyes of the person who shot it. Yes, it is wrong to rip on someone for shooting a deer that is not what another considers a "trophy". NO IT IS NOT WRONG TO WANT TO HUNT MATURE BUCKS!
How hard is this to understand?
I've not once told you how YOU have to hunt. I've not once told you how YOU have to manage the heard on your ground. Yet, you (and a couple others) want to rip people like me that simply want to hunt mature bucks. The fact I'm pro-OBR has nothing to do with it. Heck there are several anti-OBR guys that want to only harvest mature bucks. Are they demons like me as well?
Big racks have fascinated man since the dawn of time. Big racks are part of hunting, just as is the great taste of venison, just as the excitement of the hunt, just as is running you fingers through the coat of a downed animal.
I get sick and tired of defending my desire to hunt big bucks to some people.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 13, 2006 13:09:15 GMT -5
I agree with DEC.
What we hunt and what we shoot is a very personal choice that each of us has to make.
As long as it is a legal deer I would NEVER say a word to anyone on whatever deer that they shot.
If a deer hunter wants a deer, any deer, fine.
If a deer hunter wants to hold out for a Booner, fine.
Their choice.
I also agree that IF a deer hunter wants to take a big buck he needs to quit shooting the small ones. The dead small ones will never grow up and the deer hunter has buck tagged out.
Now IF he doesn't care a bit about shooting a big buck then by all means they should shoot the first brown thing with four legs to come along IF THAT IS WHAT PLEASES THEM.
I have said it at least a hundred times - The ONLY person that we have to please while deer hunting is OURSELVES.
NOBODY, the any deer hunter or the "trophy hunter", is wrong in the decision that we make for OURSELVES.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 13, 2006 13:30:55 GMT -5
I think everyone has the right to hunt whatever they want to hunt.
I just don't understand the allure of Antlers.
I suppose it adds one more layer of challange - since there are simply less Big Bucks tha big does - so I can grok it from that angle. Otherwise, it's a puzzlement.
Maybe I'd be more into the Antler Challange if I actually got out to hunt more and my freezer was already full.
But that's just me.
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 13, 2006 13:41:16 GMT -5
Hunter480 you just don't get it do you. You have this need to bash on any one of us that likes to hunt mature bucks with big racks. I'm sure that you LOVE deer hunting. So do I. Deer hunting, waterfowl hunting, and turkey hunting are the three things that I am more passionate about anything in life beyond my wife, kids, and God. I love to hunt does, I love hunting bucks, I love letting young bucks walk thinking "I could have, but it was you're lucky day", and I love hunting mature bucks. Yet, somehow you (among a couple others on here) manage to demonize people like me because we choose to only actually shoot big bucks, regardless of the Indiana bag limit. OBR or no OBR, there is absolutely nothing wrong with desiring that there be big bucks to hunt. Right now I could give a rat's ___ about the OBR argument, so let's not even go there. I have never or will never rip on anyone for shooting a small buck. I have from day one said that harvesting a deer is a very personal thing. Shoot what you want. HOWEVER, DO NOT let me here anyone whine about never seeing or being able to shoot a big antlered buck, if that person chooses to shoot a small buck. You can not have big bucks if you shoot small ones. This thread was started by someone in reference to ideas about increasing the harvest of mature deer. (If that was not Lugnutz intent, then let him chime in and correct me on this.) Therefore, I offered up a suggestion on how to increase the number of MATURE bucks. I did not intend to start any OBR debate or get into a debate on the ethics of shooting a young buck. The direct question was asked and I offered an idea. It is a FACT, that you can not have big bucks if you shoot little bucks. No, you can not eat horns. Yes, every deer is a trophy in the eyes of the person who shot it. Yes, it is wrong to rip on someone for shooting a deer that is not what another considers a "trophy". NO IT IS NOT WRONG TO WANT TO HUNT MATURE BUCKS! How hard is this to understand? I've not once told you how YOU have to hunt. I've not once told you how YOU have to manage the heard on your ground. Yet, you (and a couple others) want to rip people like me that simply want to hunt mature bucks. The fact I'm pro-OBR has nothing to do with it. Heck there are several anti-OBR guys that want to only harvest mature bucks. Are they demons like me as well? Big racks have fascinated man since the dawn of time. Big racks are part of hunting, just as is the great taste of venison, just as the excitement of the hunt, just as is running you fingers through the coat of a downed animal. I get sick and tired of defending my desire to hunt big bucks to some people. dec-I promise you, I didn`t intend for my post to come across to you as you apparently took it. I wasn`t ripping on you, I never once said it was wrong to want to kill big bucks-never. I was simply stating my, (and as you pointed out several times), a few others positions in regards to what deer hunting means to us. I thought that point needed to be made, as all the conversation always turns to trophy deer, and it seems like that`s all that ever gets heard. My apologies if I offended you, it was the farthest thing from my mind. |
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Post by dec on Oct 13, 2006 13:51:29 GMT -5
Sorry as well. Maybe I'm just a little ouchy today.
I just get sick of having to defend myself. I get so tired of all the bickering associated with hunting anymore. Not only here but all the other hunting sites too.
Can't we all just go hunting?
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