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Post by jameslyon on Sept 15, 2006 17:03:02 GMT -5
Maybe you are right. Whatever is decided that will be the end of the debate for me. h.h. Me too.
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Post by jameslyon on Sept 15, 2006 17:19:59 GMT -5
Fact #5: HRBP entries will rise when you shoot more BUCKS! Lug How about this? I have heard claimed on here that there were only 6,000 "double dippers." Many on here have claimed that the number 6,000 is an insignificant amount of bucks to make a huge difference. So, since more bucks are being killed (6,039 more bucks were killed in 2005 than the baseline number), how is that is a significant contributing factor to the HUGE jump in HRBP entries?
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Post by solohunter on Sept 15, 2006 20:06:42 GMT -5
I was hoping that this thread would die a quick death and I would not post on it any more. However, I've got to post one thing. Deerdemon, You are 100% wrong. This is the best Indiana hunting site going, bar none. Please take your petty gripes somewhere else. Thanks. Now die thread, die.DITTO ON THE DIE THREAD!!!!!!!! How many times can this topic be drug around.......someone is laughing their arse off at the bickering, name calling etc. Ain't fooling no one... Solohunter
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Post by deerdemon on Sept 15, 2006 20:31:59 GMT -5
Members of HuntingIndiana...... You all seem to have challenged any attempt to improve the herd structure in Indiana. You have also enlisted the help of the State deer biologist to verify that no change has occurred. No change is made in any operation without a result. Now if someone wants to hide the results they can disguise a result. But be aware...No action is not without a reaction. For a Biologist to say he can not see measurable difference, I and others would question his ability to provide data. From a outsider, (quit calling me man , buddy ,dude) I'm female!!! I see a prevalant theme on this site, if you do not agree with the site administrator or one of his selected administrators on the management issue you are trash. You are asked to leave, you are insulted, you are no longer welcome. I then read reply's from deer preserve owners who are treated with kid gloves. Funny how we in Montana have outlawed them and you "refined hunters" are still in the dark. But back to the topic, shooting preserve owners are respected members of this site. Do you see a pattern? Anything that interfere's with your personal view is not permitted, but something that truely affects your future is permitted to continue. I hope each of you look at what is driving your posts, is it personal greed or is it a bigger picture.
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Post by racktracker on Sept 15, 2006 20:52:15 GMT -5
GEESH MAAM..Most of us have been members here for almost a year and we can very well seperate fact from fiction. The FACT is this site is run like we want it to be. Which is mostly without a lot of BS and name calling. ANYONE can post on here as long as they pay attention to the rules. Now FICTION is what you are trying to lay on us. . Now that is beyond fiction into fantasy.. I'll bet he flies around in a black helicopter too - probably paid for by our dues here. Wait a minute we don't pay dues.. Must be that millions that the site guys are making off all the advertising. Give it up. No one here is buying your BS. Now go try and peddle it somewhere else, maam. Thanks.
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Post by pbr on Sept 15, 2006 21:01:12 GMT -5
A few questions -
Now why does deerdemon want to keep this thread alive?
Why could not deerdemon have posted his/her diatribe against this site in a new thread? maybe in the campfire?
Maybe deerdemon wants to keep the poop stirred up?
Why does a "person" in Montana care about what is posted on an INDIANA hunting site?
Very, very confusing..
As Buddylee and solohunter said - Now die thread, die.
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Post by deerdemon on Sept 15, 2006 21:35:25 GMT -5
I care about any hunting that will ultimately affect everyone.... not only do I hunt in Montana, but across the country. I would like someday for my grandsons to be able to hunt in the open as I do,, not in a "deer preserve" surrounding. Sounds like folks from Indiana dont want the extra $$ , or opinions, from an out of state "person". Very, very confusing........ I replied to a post to a thread that is eerily like the Morgantown buck from Indiana. It would appear that this forum is against anything that could possibly show Indiana as a progressive whitetail state with potential for nonresidents to visit Indiana. I only ask for you people to look at what you post, anyone anywhere has the option to read what is posted on the web. When I read this topic it is evident you are only concerned in what your needs are, not what benefits the majority. I urge you all to look to the future, what worked in the past is no longer relevant, QDM is the management of today and the future. I urge you to join QDMA Or at least visit www.QDMA.com And just a quick news release, the Morgantown buck, he is doing well and will soon show up in the press, seems he needed a little space and time. the antlers never left the secure area they were placed.
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Post by pbr on Sept 15, 2006 21:45:22 GMT -5
I only ask for you people to look at what you post, anyone anywhere has the option to read what is posted on the web. When I read this topic it is evident you are only concerned in what your needs are, not what benefits the majority. Now you're attacking us as "only concerned in what our needs are " and you're trying to tell us what and what not to post. ALL of us can have a difference of opinion and nothing in the world says your's is any better than anyone else's. Isn't there a forum in Montana that could use your great wisdom?
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Post by buddylee on Sept 15, 2006 21:48:51 GMT -5
Now die thread, die.
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Post by indianahick on Sept 15, 2006 23:28:56 GMT -5
NEW FLASH!!! NEWS FLASH!!! An article in Deer and Deer hunting reports that the Indiana DNR bioligists are saying that due to the mild winters of the last 3-4 years that the does are dropping an average of 3 fawns instead of the 1.5 that was the norm. Supposidly they captured and xrayed one that had 5 in her.
Global warming is the big reason for the sudden expansion in the deer herd.
Well maybe, I will totally believe this when Clinton, Kennedy, and Feinstien vote for the second amendment and to do away with firearms control.
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Post by lugnutz on Sept 15, 2006 23:30:45 GMT -5
This explains alot!
Hunter480, don't worry bud, i was being a smarta** in my previous post. I do apreciate you and others, taking my back while i'm away!
Buddylee your posts are useless, if you can't learn from whats going on in this thread then why bother those that are? Its not like this is the only thread in the Deer Hunting section.
Lug
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Post by lugnutz on Sept 15, 2006 23:52:59 GMT -5
Fact #5: HRBP entries will rise when you shoot more BUCKS! Lug How about this? I have heard claimed on here that there were only 6,000 "double dippers." Many on here have claimed that the number 6,000 is an insignificant amount of bucks to make a huge difference. So, since more bucks are being killed (6,039 more bucks were killed in 2005 than the baseline number), how is that is a significant contributing factor to the HUGE jump in HRBP entries? Excellent point! My only questions is, is where do you claim they are coming from? I just don't see a point in the OBR if its NOT saving any bucks per harvest year. Granted, HRBP entries can be affected by the way we take care of our herd compared to the years of yesterday. Our herd, has more nutrious food for them now days, than ever before. This has alot to do with the HUGE interest in growing large racked bucks, that people are now seeing everyday in magazines, videos and tv. This would be the best answere that i have for your question; nutrion, overall herd size, and selectivity that wasn't their in years past. I'm not positive, but i'd also say that more people are getting their bucks scored now more than ever before. It used to be that people could relate to/from other hunters and people by how many points the buck had and the field dress weight. Now days, people want to know, how many inches is it? What did it score? The old way just doesn't cut it anymore with todays world. Lug
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Post by hornharvester on Sept 16, 2006 0:59:34 GMT -5
First of all this thread is turning into a ing match and its time to clean it up. Lets get back on subject!Deerdemon, I'm sorry you feel the way you do about this site. we try to let everyone post on here no matter what their opinion is. We try to edit the least amount as possible but that is hard at times. h.h.
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Post by solohunter on Sept 16, 2006 6:56:48 GMT -5
still 69%-31%...still no crossbow in early archery and early M/L...guess we won't be like KY....end of story AGAIN...... Solohunter
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Post by cambygsp on Sept 16, 2006 7:31:05 GMT -5
Yea....But I can remember a few years back when LOTS of folks said there would NEVER be a youth deer hunt, prior to or during the early archery season.
The OBR will change alot of things!!!!
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Post by indianahick on Sept 16, 2006 8:35:07 GMT -5
Personally I actually beleive that there are more triplets being born now than ever befor. Why? My belief is in the advent of food plots and supplimental feeding after the seasons. These are both things that were not done heck even heard about 15 years ago. And yes both will ultamently lead to larger animals and larger head gear. Which gets the equation back to nutrition which is the first necessity for large antlers, and alway has been and always will be.
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Post by jameslyon on Sept 16, 2006 8:54:41 GMT -5
Excellent point! My only questions is, is where do you claim they are coming from? I just don't see a point in the OBR if its NOT saving any bucks per harvest year. Granted, HRBP entries can be affected by the way we take care of our herd compared to the years of yesterday. Our herd, has more nutrious food for them now days, than ever before. This has alot to do with the HUGE interest in growing large racked bucks, that people are now seeing everyday in magazines, videos and tv. This would be the best answere that i have for your question; nutrion, overall herd size, and selectivity that wasn't their in years past. I'm not positive, but i'd also say that more people are getting their bucks scored now more than ever before. It used to be that people could relate to/from other hunters and people by how many points the buck had and the field dress weight. Now days, people want to know, how many inches is it? What did it score? The old way just doesn't cut it anymore with todays world. Lug Lug, thanks for being cordial in your reply to my post. It seems that many can get wound up when they are passionate about something, which can in turn progress into degenerative banter. The passion is good, the banter is not. Honestly, I didn't have any idea why there were so many more HRBP entries in the last few years if it wasn't due to OBR. I found a post on another site that I think makes some sense. I'm not trying to claim this quote as my own, just trying to offer up another possiblility. "In a nutshell.....it appears that, from a percentage standpoint, that buck numbers haven't changed much, but alas a 4% decrease translates into quite a few animals statewide. Also, remember that doe harvest has climbed by this same percentile margin. Also huge. Any biologist worth his salt out there will tell you that when more female deer are killed, the number of mature bucks will also climb. More hunters are killing does...which trims the herd, and consequently more bucks are slipping through to older age classes. I only looked at the firearms numbers too.
What you have to remember is that there are more bucks available to be harvested now than ever before... more of these bucks are getting older. Why? Because the OBR only allows an individual hunter to kill one. You kill your buck, and then the other one you may have killed a few years ago is going to live."
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Post by greghopper on Sept 16, 2006 9:17:48 GMT -5
Very Well said ...James!!!!! Awesome Quote also....
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 16, 2006 9:21:37 GMT -5
Glad we are back on subject....
James,
That would make sense IF a large number of second bucks were being killed every year.
According to our deer biologist that number was around 6,000.
The last ten years of the two buck system I "doubled" twice and I hunt very hard.
We found out the first year (2002) that the archers were passing up the bucks as intended - BUT that just transferred the harvest over to the gun hunters as they took up almost all the slack of the archery buck numbers.
In the 4 years of OBR data gathering it is real apparent on the shift/transfer of the buck harvest from archery to gun season.
I posted those number somewhere on here.
Te sacrifice of the archers is getting taken by the gun hunters.
We have a growing deer herd on our hands (see increasing number of bonus permits) and it is not just does. Bucks fawns are born at a slightly higher rate than doe fawns so that is budging the numbers too.
Factor in that hunters are becoming more selective in shooting bucks (OBR gets some credit for that, but certainly not all as some folks are a ballyhooing) and are passing up buttons (which OBR gets no credit for) we have the potential to see a great buck herd.
Like you , I too would like to see a two buck trial of 5 years to determine if this OBR really worked or just came along at an opportune time to take credit for what was already happening.
If Dr. Jim Mitchell says the data is inconclusive now I have to believe him and go along with whatever he wants to do to get the correct data and proceed from there.
After that I will go with whatever decision he makes.
Indiana deer management should not be done by what is popular with the most folks that show up at an NRC meeting.
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Post by jameslyon on Sept 16, 2006 10:09:01 GMT -5
Glad we are back on subject....James, That would make sense IF a large number of second bucks were being killed every year. According to our deer biologist that number was around 6,000. The last ten years of the two buck system I "doubled" twice and I hunt very hard. We found out the first year (2002) that the archers were passing up the bucks as intended - BUT that just transferred the harvest over to the gun hunters as they took up almost all the slack of the archery buck numbers. In the 4 years of OBR data gathering it is real apparent on the shift/transfer of the buck harvest from archery to gun season. I posted those number somewhere on here. Te sacrifice of the archers is getting taken by the gun hunters. And the majority of the deer hunters in IN are gun hunters only. They should be thankful for the OBR. [Factor in that hunters are becoming more selective in shooting bucks (OBR gets some credit for that, but certainly not all as some folks are a ballyhooing) and are passing up buttons (which OBR gets no credit for) we have the potential to see a great buck herd. I think the OBR should get a lot of the credit for making hunters more selective. Somewhere between "some" and the "ballyhooers." [Like you , I too would like to see a two buck trial of 5 years to determine if this OBR really worked or just came along at an opportune time to take credit for what was already happening. A five-year trial period would be more conclusive than a three-year period, but I don't think that either will give anyone the concrete results they are looking for. Too many variables are involved. The DNR has changed too many things during the OBR, thus creating these variables. [If Dr. Jim Mitchell says the data is inconclusive now I have to believe him and go along with whatever he wants to do to get the correct data and proceed from there. After that I will go with whatever decision he makes. Me too. [Indiana deer management should not be done by what is popular with the most folks that show up at an NRC meeting. Should deer management be performed according to what the majority of deer hunters in this state feel is benefitting them? In that case, as I've posted before, it would make sense that the OBR would stay (as the majority of deer hunters are gun-only hunters benefitting from the OBR). If the OBR goes away, like many on this forum want it to, wouldn't that be a decision made based on "what is popular with the most folks that show up at an NRC meeting"? I am not a gun-only hunter. I bowhunt hard every day of the season. I would much rather shoot a nice buck with my bow, but I don't mind getting a nice one with my gun once in a while. From what I have seen the last few years (many more mature bucks), I would think the OBR has a great deal to do with producing these caliber animals, and I am excited about the opportunity of harvesting one of these animals during bow season or gun season.
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