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Post by hunter480 on Aug 25, 2006 17:58:49 GMT -5
Woody-In the thread on tracking deer, you stated in some cases, it`s best to wait 4 hours, or possibly even overnight before trailing.
When Ladoga meat cutters were processing deer, I had a chat with one of the meat cutters, and he mentioned something to me about "bone-soured" meat. He said that even if it`s cold out overnight, the meat can be tainted since the body heat radiates out from within, and the body doesn`t get to properly cool down.
Have you ever heard of this?
Also, what is your opinion as to how long the meat of a deer would remain edible? How long could a deer lay out, and without being gutted, before you wouldn`t want it on your kitchen table?
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Post by indianahick on Aug 25, 2006 21:21:12 GMT -5
The few that I have had to leave over night I got to early the next morning. A couple did seem to have a stronger smell than freshly killed and field dressed animals. All were okay. But I would say that if you do not find it by dark the next day then it is to late.
The processor where I take mine hands out sheets with instructions on care of the meat. They want you to put ice in the chest and stomach cavity if you can not get it into them on the day that you make the kill. Even the old prop the chest cavity open even when it is cold out is not adequate.
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Post by bsutravis on Aug 26, 2006 1:46:09 GMT -5
I always buy ice wherever I check my deer in at and stuff the chest cavity and down near the legs to help cool the meat.... Aside from being a good idea, it's nice to spend a few dollars at the business I'm checking the deer in at.
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Post by Sleazy E on Aug 26, 2006 6:51:51 GMT -5
Now see I don't use ice at all. We process our own (when there is time) and we just hang them in the root cellar and keep a very close eue on them. Now if it is hot then we will process them the same day we kill them or we will take them to a butcher shop. (If we don't have time to do it ourselves) I know opening day of gun season we will be butchering deer until about 2am so that we don't have to take a day off of hunting to get them done.
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Post by tmeasel on Aug 27, 2006 5:24:45 GMT -5
Daytime temperatures here in Florida can reach in the 80's even with a freeze during the night.If we dont find a deer here by nightfall you can just forget about it being any good.A daytime kill is gutted in the field,packed with ice and taken within the hour to skin and cut-up.We just can't leave one on the ground here for more than a couple of hours.
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Post by RoadKill on Aug 27, 2006 6:58:06 GMT -5
One time, I got a little far back and caught the liver and on into the guts. I left the deer at dark and picked up the next morning. The deer had swelled quite a bit and had a VERY strong smell. It was a challenge just to gut the thing. The bottom line is that it was one of the sweetest tasting deer I've had.
YMMV
Take care, have fun....
Roger D. in Southern Indiana
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Aug 28, 2006 10:14:40 GMT -5
I had one sour on me by leaving him overnight. Temps were cool, but not what I would consider cold.
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Post by grappledad on Aug 28, 2006 10:34:54 GMT -5
I don't buy the bone sour thing. If a deer goes bad it's because you didn't get it cold enough fast enough. Over night's not bad if it's cold enough and you didn't gut shoot it. If it's a gut shot I'm getting out the flashlights and my dog after a couple hour wait.
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Post by dec on Aug 28, 2006 13:00:43 GMT -5
I've personally never left one of mine over night. Not saying that I would not do it, but I've just never had to. It seems like any questionable hit I've ever had was in the morning, so letting the deer lay for many hours was no big deal. I was with a buddy last year who had to let one lay over night. Big big buck. We let him lay for about 3 hours, tracked him, jumped him, and backed out. We went out at 4:00 in the morning and found him an hour or so later. It was cool out and the meat was still good.
Personally, I would not want to let one lay over night, but faced with jumping the deer and never finding it, vs. finding it the next morning, I'd opt for letting it lay over night. At least in that case, you have the deer (in most cases) and there is an off chance the meat is still good. Jumping a wounded deer often results in a lost deer. I'd rather find my deer and use my legal tag, even if the meat is unfortunately lost in doing so. In the case of a doe, with the liberal permits, you will typically have other opportunities for meat. With a buck, at least you can salvage the antlers. Lost meat is unfortunate, but it happens and will always be the unfortunate side of hunting.
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Post by Hawkeye on Aug 28, 2006 15:55:53 GMT -5
On eating any meat, Deer or otherwise. I look at it this way, on a fairly warm October evening would you go into the woods with a pound or so of raw pork or beef, leave it on the ground ,come back sometime the next day in the sunshine, pick up your meat,take it home fry it and eat it. Not me!. I have had food poison befor and thought I would die for about a week. A biologist has explained to me in detail how fast Meat not cooled can spoil. In warm weather If the deer Is not found within a few hours I for one will pass on the backstraps.
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Post by hunter480 on Aug 28, 2006 16:13:52 GMT -5
On eating any meat, Deer or otherwise. I look at it this way, on a fairly warm October evening would you go into the woods with a pound or so of raw pork or beef, leave it on the ground ,come back sometime the next day in the sunshine, pick up your meat,take it home fry it and eat it. Not me!. I have had food poison befor and thought I would die for about a week. A biologist has explained to me in detail how fast Meat not cooled can spoil. In warm weather If the deer Is not found within a few hours I for one will pass on the backstraps. Even though that`s not exactly a like-for-like example, I think it has merit. And as for not buying into the bone sour explanation, I wouldn`t be so quick to try to explain that one away either. The meat cutter was telling me how most deer processers will take the carcus, and cut it up and package it for you regardless of the condition it`s in, because they want the money. I don`t see that as benefiting his business to tell me something he was making up. Woody-you`ve been silent on this, come on. What do you think about the bone souring of meat, and what about leaving a deer in the woods overnight? |
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Post by jkd on Aug 28, 2006 16:39:56 GMT -5
Greg - the rule of thumb a guy at Archer's meats told me - the quicker the cooler, the better...
Warm weather, if I think I've made a good hit, I seldom wait more than 45 minutes or so in warm weather, because I want to get the deer opened up and cooling, and I find a blood trail easier to follow before the blood dries completely. If it's above 45 degrees, I always get ice bags in the body cavity and between the legs to maintain cooling on the way to the processor. Basically, if it's warmer out than what you want your refrigerator set at, I think ice is needed to prevent strong tasting venison.
On the overnight thing, another issue is loose dogs and coyotes...
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 28, 2006 17:06:44 GMT -5
Woody-you`ve been silent on this, come on. What do you think about the bone souring of meat, and what about leaving a deer in the woods overnight? Over night? Here is what I think. If it is not a good hit, such a gut shot, that deer just might not even die for 4 to 6 hours or more. If he ain't dead, he ain't spoiling. If you push a bad hit deer there is a very good chance that you'll never find them at all. So what is there to lose by letting him go? If it is a good hit or a meat hit by all means pursue it. I've eaten deer that laid all night (stiff when we found them) in less than 50 degree weather and they tasted just fine to me. Laying all day in the sun and higher temps might present a problem. Either way it is a judgement call to pursue the deer and whether you want to eat it our not after it laid for while. |
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Post by grappledad on Aug 28, 2006 18:13:32 GMT -5
Good point WW.
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Post by dabutcher on Aug 28, 2006 18:19:43 GMT -5
i have cut many deer left overnight, and i would say about 90% of the deer i turn away is because a bad hit and being left overnight(if i wouldn't eat it i won't process it) if the temps are in the 30's to low 40's most of the time it is ok, but once you get higher than that it only takes a few hours for it to spoil, some signs too look for if it is spoiled, strong smell, a greenish tinge to the fat (and meat) along the inside of the rib cage (close to the back leg usally turns first), between the hind legs, and around the neck area. once again the quicker it cools the better, their is no need to hang a deer, once it reaches temp (34-38) cut it.
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Post by steiny on Aug 28, 2006 19:01:37 GMT -5
Simple ..... feed that one to your in-laws.
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Post by theprocessor on Sept 3, 2006 17:14:45 GMT -5
When Ladoga meat cutters were processing deer, I had a chat with one of the meat cutters, and he mentioned something to me about "bone-soured" meat. He said that even if it`s cold out overnight, the meat can be tainted since the body heat radiates out from within, and the body doesn`t get to properly cool down. This is absolutely true. A deers hide is the best insulation that animal has. You have to remember that the internal temp of a deer is somewhere neer 100*F and all of that head will be contained by the hide. We always tell our customers that they should never leave a deer overnight, even if it is 20 below. The meat cutter was telling me how most deer processers will take the carcus, and cut it up and package it for you regardless of the condition it`s in, because they want the money. I don`t see that as benefiting his business to tell me something he was making up. This is just bad buisness and bad for the consumers. We turn away nearly all of the deer that have been left over night. 95% of the time there is both visual and scent clues that the meat has soured. The first places to turn green are the shoulders and hindquarters of the animal, because they have the highest mass concentration. |
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Post by hunter480 on Sept 3, 2006 19:05:00 GMT -5
When Ladoga meat cutters were processing deer, I had a chat with one of the meat cutters, and he mentioned something to me about "bone-soured" meat. He said that even if it`s cold out overnight, the meat can be tainted since the body heat radiates out from within, and the body doesn`t get to properly cool down. This is absolutely true. A deers hide is the best insulation that animal has. You have to remember that the internal temp of a deer is somewhere neer 100*F and all of that head will be contained by the hide. We always tell our customers that they should never leave a deer overnight, even if it is 20 below. The meat cutter was telling me how most deer processers will take the carcus, and cut it up and package it for you regardless of the condition it`s in, because they want the money. I don`t see that as benefiting his business to tell me something he was making up. This is just bad buisness and bad for the consumers. We turn away nearly all of the deer that have been left over night. 95% of the time there is both visual and scent clues that the meat has soured. The first places to turn green are the shoulders and hindquarters of the animal, because they have the highest mass concentration. Thanks for the professional input, I hadn`t ever been able to find anyone else who butchered deer that would confirm or deny that. I didn`t have any reason to believe the guy at Ladoga wouldn`t be truthful though. What would be the longest you would have an animal lay dead, ungutted, before you`d say it`s no longer ok. |
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Post by greenhunter on Sept 3, 2006 23:41:48 GMT -5
Deer meat does not start to decompose until the deer is dead. So what really matters is the time of death. If you leave a deer overnight and it takes most of that night for it to die. It does not start decomposition until the minute it dies. I would suggest you look at your deer once you find it and see if rigor mortis is still in the deer (is it stiff) if so, gut it, haul it in and strip that insulating hide off quickly to facilitate cooling. If you find the deer limp and cold, then rigor has come and gone. your time for spoilage is much greater now. That will be your call if it is spoiled or not. Remember your deer may have laid up wounded and alive most of the night before it actually died, so you can't just assume it's a spoiled deer because you found it the next morning.
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Post by theprocessor on Sept 4, 2006 11:33:39 GMT -5
Hunter480,
I would personally go no more than 3 hours, from the time of death. After that it becomes the judgment call of the hunter, or the processor, whether it is still good. Like greenhunter said, a deer will not decay until dead. So, if you know you put a bad shot on an animal, then you may be ok the next morning. But if you put a really good shot on a deer, and for whatever reason cant get to it till next morning, then it will most likely be spoiled.
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