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Post by spike on Aug 21, 2006 15:23:43 GMT -5
I can assure you there will be more people from this site and from the Indiana Sporting groups hunt preserves this year than have ever spoke against it. As of right now there will be more at my place alone than what has voted on here.
The big mis-perception is that preserves are here to replace or compete against traditional hunting. They are not. They simply are another hunting opportunity for those who chose to hunt there and they bring and keep sportsmen into hunting..
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Post by gundude on Aug 21, 2006 16:06:31 GMT -5
Spike you seem to have a lot of unsupported facts. FACT majority of sportsmen support you? Doesnt seem to be proving out in this poll does it? Does IDHA support you? How about IBA? There are other State Orgs. but we have covered that in the past I think. Speaking about IDHA, Why dont you go over there and enlighten those folks hm? Don't worry you have a few of your suppliers that post over there. You can post there can't you? It is true that you are entitled to your opinion as to the merits of killing pens as is Stieny and others. HOWEVER, it is a minority opinion and it always has been so don't try to spew it out here as FACT because it is obivous that it isn't. If a ruling comes out in your favor it will because of back room political deals and money but it certainly wont be because REAL sportsmen supported you. Stange I only got two votes for being idiot? ? HM I thought that number would have been higher! ;D
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Post by dantheblugrassman on Aug 21, 2006 17:56:46 GMT -5
I proudly voted for high fence hunting preserves... Just like any other "real" sportsman should. Folks...Don't let all this negative talk about hunting preserves on this site turn you away from the truth. Think for yourself...Don't be fooled.
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Post by gundude on Aug 21, 2006 18:02:06 GMT -5
This speaks for itself I think:
CANNED SHOOT STATEMENT The Boone and Crockett Club’s Board of Directors and its membership have unanimously adopted and approved a position statement on “Canned Shoots” because of the growing concern among hunters and the increased public interest in the practice of “canned hunts.”
BOONE AND CROCKETT CLUB POSITION STATEMENT ETHICAL HUNTING VERSUS UNETHICAL SHOOTING AND OTHER PRACTICES
The Boone and Crockett Club has been a highly respected conservation leader and proponent of ethical Fair Chase hunting of North American big game since 1887.
Ethical Fair Chase Hunting The Boone and Crockett Club, in its Fair Chase statement, advocates any hunting that is “the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over the game animals.”
Unethical “Canned” Shooting (Improperly referred to as “canned” hunting.) The Boone and Crockett Club condemns the pursuit and killing of any big game animal kept in or released from captivity to be killed in an artificial or bogus “hunting” situation where the game lacks the equivalent chance to escape afforded free-ranging animals, virtually assuring the shooter a certain or unrealistically favorable chance of a kill.
Genetic Manipulation of Game Animals The Boone and Crockett Club condemns artificial and unnatural enhancement of a big game species’ genetic characteristics. Unacceptable practices for genetic enhancement include, but are not limited to, artificial insemination, controlled or unnatural breeding programs, cloning, and translocation of breeding stock for canned shooting purposes.
Public Perception The Boone and Crockett Club is greatly concerned that the non-hunting public may confuse ethical, fair chase hunting with canned shoots, genetic manipulations and other related practices, which the Club condemns.
If you have any questions, please contact: C. Robert Palmer, President George Bettas, Executive Director
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Post by hornharvester on Aug 21, 2006 18:06:06 GMT -5
ive never hunted a high fence operation and never intend too and futher more i could care less about them. the only game preserves ive hunted were for pheasants. h.h.
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Post by steiny on Aug 21, 2006 18:34:23 GMT -5
I don't see that put & take pheasants or pay pond trout or catfishing is any more ethical or sporting than shooting a deer inside an enclosure. Why does the almighty whitetail get put up on a pedistal like it is some superior animal? It's just another animal ... no more sacred than another species.
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Post by jackc99 on Aug 21, 2006 18:53:21 GMT -5
Because the pheasants can (and do fly away) and the trout and the catfish don't have to bite. Tell that to the deer staggering in front of Bellar's blind stoned out of his mind so some fat and lazy rich kid could shoot him. I'm sure he would have appreciated some chance at life.
Jack
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Post by steiny on Aug 21, 2006 19:15:53 GMT -5
I don't buy is jackc99. You are comparing an extreme case, when you discuss Bellars program which he got busted for. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking put & take birds or pay ponds, but the fact is they are darned easy pickings and not nearly as sporting as wild game. That is why people go to those places, the assurance of making a kill.
A penned deer could hide out and lie still (assuming a good size pen) and avoid harm, just the same as one of those pheasants flying off and living happily ever after. But we know what the odds of that are.
I've seen pay ponds where they give kids marshmallows for bait and catch fish hand over fist, which incidently taste just like the "dog food" they feed them, and put and take pheasants that had to be kicked in the butt so they would fly. Why are these practices "sporting" in some people's minds, while shooting a fenced deer isn't?
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Post by lugnutz on Aug 21, 2006 20:44:20 GMT -5
Its about time to let it go! It obviously isn't going in the favor of closing the pens, its been tried and tried and tried.... In the meantime things like the WHA is going on, time to fight it (if thats your choosing) before it gets out of hand.
Seems to me like it a waste of time pursueing something thats been tried over and over again.
Just let go, do what YOU want to do!
Lug
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Post by gundude on Aug 21, 2006 20:48:46 GMT -5
WOW hard to believe I was so blind to the facts here. All the Sponsers of " fair chase" I had listed are in full support of this kind of thing.......... NOT.. Lets see what Pope & Young have to say about this issue...
Fair Chase From its beginnings, the Club has grown to epitomize fair chase and sportsmanship in hunting. This fair chase philosophy reaches to the very foundations of the hunting spirit; it remains a dominant factor in the personal hunting ethic of every responsible individual; it is key to bowhunting's future with deep roots in America's hunting heritage. Simply defined, fair chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner which does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over the animal. It does, however, extend beyond the hunt itself; it is an attitude and a way of life based in a deep-seated respect for wildlife, for the environment, and for other individuals who share the bounty of this vast continent's natural resources.
The term "Fair Chase" shall not include the taking of animals under the following conditions:
Helpless in a trap, deep snow or water, or on ice. From any power vehicle or power boat. By "jacklighting" or shining at night. By the use of any tranquilizers or poisons. While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures. By the use of any power vehicles or power boats for herding or driving animals, including use of aircraft to land alongside or to communicate with or direct a hunter on the ground. By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating, or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached. Any other condition considered by the Board of Directors as unacceptable.
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Post by lugnutz on Aug 21, 2006 21:00:17 GMT -5
WOW hard to believe I was so blind to the facts here. All the Sponsers of " fair chase" I had listed are in full support of this kind of thing.......... NOT.. Lets see what Pope & Young have to say about this issue... Fair Chase From its beginnings, the Club has grown to epitomize fair chase and sportsmanship in hunting. This fair chase philosophy reaches to the very foundations of the hunting spirit; it remains a dominant factor in the personal hunting ethic of every responsible individual; it is key to bowhunting's future with deep roots in America's hunting heritage. Simply defined, fair chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner which does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over the animal. It does, however, extend beyond the hunt itself; it is an attitude and a way of life based in a deep-seated respect for wildlife, for the environment, and for other individuals who share the bounty of this vast continent's natural resources. The term "Fair Chase" shall not include the taking of animals under the following conditions: Helpless in a trap, deep snow or water, or on ice. From any power vehicle or power boat. By "jacklighting" or shining at night. By the use of any tranquilizers or poisons. While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures. By the use of any power vehicles or power boats for herding or driving animals, including use of aircraft to land alongside or to communicate with or direct a hunter on the ground. By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating, or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached. Any other condition considered by the Board of Directors as unacceptable. Those people that hunt in pens could care less! If they cared they wouldn't be in their in the first place.
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Post by spike on Aug 21, 2006 21:08:38 GMT -5
gundude- You have taken a poll where you should do your best- "In your house" And 64% is all you can do ! LMFAO. Guess this one backfired like all the rest. Time to have somebody vote 30 times for you. More of YOUR so called members have already booked their hunts with me than you have got to vote against us. Remember- it is documented FACT that only 73 people in the entire state spoke against high fence hunting. I understand why you are so upset. Losing sucks - you should have been on the side of the REAL sportsmen and you could feel good like the rest of us. What is the largest hunting organizations stance ? SCI supports high fence hunting and does more for hunting than any other group. The FACTS above is why the true sportsmen will be victorious. Your backdoor politics BS does not fly. They follow the wishes of the people, and this case the people want the hunting heritage to be protected. If your views were the actual truth answer me this. How could over 100,000 sportsmen be "outspoken" by myself and 7 or 8 others. It simply don't add up gundude. I would like to take the credit for being that powerful and infuential but myself and everyone else knows better. Now put the majority of those 100,000 sportsmen behind us and you have got what happened. Learn to cope buddy, Learn to cope and somehow find a way where you can live with it. Jack- I have been to many breeding farms for the birds you think are challenging to hunt. We all know the spin the bird technique so the bird will not move until you and your three buddies are all lined up with shotguns ready to test your skills. Once in position you kick the bird or throw it up in the air and show your marksmanship. LMFAO. The birds first flight in life ends because of your great hunting skills- get real ! The bird flies, the catfish don't have to bite, and deer do not have to move, they are ALL the same. Don't be ashamed of how you hunt- ain't nobody buying your story to make you think you are any better than anyone else who hunts non-traditional methods. You don't have to be ashamed.
Also we need to verify something- NONE of the hunting preserves in Indiana condones or approves of drugging deer, shooting deer in small enclosures that can't escape or evade the hunter or baiting. IF you feel all preserves do that then it would be a safe assumption to make that all hunters are poachers. Both anaylogies are false.
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Post by gundude on Aug 21, 2006 21:11:38 GMT -5
BINGO LUG!!!!!!!!!!! Thus the reason I get sick and tired of folks trying to tell me and others that all the major sporting organizations are supporting this thing. It simply isnt true. PERIOD!
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Post by spike on Aug 21, 2006 21:23:49 GMT -5
Hey Gundude - Lets team up and help stop this WHA BS. You could feel what its like to be on the winning side this time. I could teach you how to argue with facts to further your cause. You could teach me how to "spin" in case I wanted to do that some day. The sportsmen united to save the preserves they can also unite to stop the WHA idea. Whatever it takes to save, protect and promote hunting is what we will do.
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Post by gundude on Aug 21, 2006 21:28:13 GMT -5
WOW! More support from the REAL SPORTSMEN for the high fence boys!.lol.
The Indiana Deer Hunters Association Board of Directors and its' members are opposed to any killing of wildlife(including exotics) in the State of Indiana behind a high fence designed to confine animals inside ,OR... to keep wildlife from natural movement outside the fence.
We further support the Emergency Rule and Administrative Rule that was approved by the Natural Resource Committee, and approved by the Attorny General of Indiana. These rules are in effect today while not being enforced on exotic shooting pens.
The IDHA does not support any extension of "continuing business", As a business owner they took a business risk.
Director Kyle Hupfer and the State government gave notice to a deadline of the 2006 legislature. That time has passed and it is time to close the chapter of Indiana having High Fence killing pens.
Joe Bacon IDHA
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Post by spike on Aug 21, 2006 21:37:21 GMT -5
Gundude- Would it make you mad or make you feel better if I took a picture of the "Welcome IDHA and IBA hunters" banners I have that I hang up on their weekends here.
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Post by gundude on Aug 21, 2006 21:41:05 GMT -5
What do you care? sure, POST IT!
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Post by huxbux on Aug 21, 2006 21:56:33 GMT -5
In order to be considered "hunting", there must be a chance that one will fail in the endeavor. I'm curious as to the failure rate at these high-fence operations. Anyone care to provide those figures? If the failure rate is very low [as I suspect], let's drop the term "hunting" in relation to these operations, and designate the right tag....... shooting preserves. That will help avoid any confusion in the future.
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Post by firstrock on Aug 21, 2006 22:40:02 GMT -5
Seems to me I recall at the Ft. Harrison public meeting those who opposed canned hunting outnumbered those who are for canned hunting by 2 to 1. My memory also reflects on the fact that the majority of those in favor of canned hunting were bussed in together and were all in cahoots with each other! I was considering posting ALL the info I have that supports my anti-canned hunting position to show Spike and others that their truths are not factually correct. On second though though, I realize that arguing with an idiot makes me a bigger idiot therefore I respectlfully restrain myself from this endevor! Long live free ranging deer hunting!
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Post by hornharvester on Aug 21, 2006 23:05:14 GMT -5
This thread is going no where but down hill and getting personal, so im locking it. h.h.
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