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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 20, 2023 19:21:43 GMT -5
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 20, 2023 19:29:06 GMT -5
Agree. BUT you can shoot inferior bucks, instead of your better 3 and 4 year olds, to let them reach maturity. We don't really care about the genetics, more so just letting our better bucks reach maturity. That's our strategy anyhow, and seems to be working.
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Post by HuntMeister on Nov 20, 2023 21:26:41 GMT -5
What is an inferior buck?
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 20, 2023 21:52:50 GMT -5
Any 3 or 4 yr. old 6, 7 or 8.
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Post by HuntMeister on Nov 21, 2023 7:21:30 GMT -5
IMHO, this year's proclaimed inferior buck could be next year's stud buck and this year's stud could be looking not so studly next year. Just too many variables in a bucks life / environment year to year to say for certain what buck is or will be inferior.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 21, 2023 8:18:01 GMT -5
IMHO, this year's proclaimed inferior buck could be next year's stud buck and this year's stud could be looking not so studly next year. Just too many variables in a bucks life / environment year to year to say for certain what buck is or will be inferior. I look at it this way. What can I help or control? I can control what I shoot. I can help control habitat and nutrition available. (I cannot control genetics.) So I work on age structure, habitat and nutrition. Am lucky that have great neighbors with similar goals and desires. Get as many bucks to 4+ as possible , provide as much nutrition and food as possible. (The rest takes care of itself.) I am at point in my life filling a buck tag isn't as important as it use to be. IF and WHEN I do it will be a mature buck 4+, score isn't that important to me, although generally speaking a mature bucks headgear is usually pretty impressive.
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 21, 2023 8:22:21 GMT -5
IMHO, this year's proclaimed inferior buck could be next year's stud buck and this year's stud could be looking not so studly next year. Just too many variables in a bucks life / environment year to year to say for certain what buck is or will be inferior. Over the years it becomes quite apparent by a bucks' third age whether they are going to become something a hunter personally would desire. MSU biologists, numerous hunters who observe far more than us, and even in the captive industry...that third year tells a ton of the deer's future - of course nothing is guaranteed but typically speaking that is when not only skeletal framing but majority of antler genetics are starting to have been displayed. Now I'll shoot a five year old buck regardless of the headgear but I personally have far less excitement for a five year old that told me when he was three he wasn't becoming anything special. I actually am in a place this year where I have my one buck that is 7 1/2 and then the gap to the next regulars falls to a couple suspected 4 year olds that truthfully the one is a short tined genetics buck that will NEVER be anything P&Y while the other is a main frame big eight with a nub right side G4 and could be special with his frame. When I get back from Thanksgiving and we are into December I'm going to do card pulls and likely might switch gears to removing does and some of the young bucks actually purely from a buck numbers stance - give a few of the three year olds a few more years and maybe even protect the one four year old (at least from me or Pops shooting them) and instead fill the freezer and eliminate some buck numbers from the lower age brackets.
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Post by HuntMeister on Nov 21, 2023 8:51:49 GMT -5
IMHO, this year's proclaimed inferior buck could be next year's stud buck and this year's stud could be looking not so studly next year. Just too many variables in a bucks life / environment year to year to say for certain what buck is or will be inferior. I look at it this way. What can I help or control? I can control what I shoot. I can help control habitat and nutrition available. (I cannot control genetics.) So I work on age structure, habitat and nutrition. Am lucky that have great neighbors with similar goals and desires. Get as many bucks to 4+ as possible , provide as much nutrition and food as possible. (The rest takes care of itself.) I am at point in my life filling a buck tag isn't as important as it use to be. IF and WHEN I do it will be a mature buck 4+, score isn't that important to me, although generally speaking a mature bucks headgear is usually pretty impressive. I do agree with controlling what you can and you are blessed with the opportunity to do just that.
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Post by esshup on Nov 21, 2023 10:36:25 GMT -5
With Indiana's OBR, that doesn't leave much leeway for any management. I have on on cam for the past 2, maybe 3 years a spike buck. Each year the spikes are bigger, IIRC I have a pic of him this year and the spikes are 2x as tall as the ears. SO, if I take that one out, then I'm done for the year. With a small property that cannot hold deer on it 24/7/365 what is the point? The neighbors aren't with the program, so seeing one that is older than 2.5-3.5 YO is a miracle.
I have passed probably 10-15 bucks this year so far. Some probably are duplicate sightings but none are bigger than 8 points. The neighbor shot a big bodied 6 point on Sunday afternoon that I most likely passed Sunday morning.
About 5-6 years ago I found a gut shot 10 point that wasn't more than 1.5 years old. Still had a short nose, small body and the rack was all within his ears. I would have loved to see that one make it to 6 years old.
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 21, 2023 11:28:07 GMT -5
With Indiana's OBR, that doesn't leave much leeway for any management. I have on on cam for the past 2, maybe 3 years a spike buck. Each year the spikes are bigger, IIRC I have a pic of him this year and the spikes are 2x as tall as the ears. SO, if I take that one out, then I'm done for the year. With a small property that cannot hold deer on it 24/7/365 what is the point? The neighbors aren't with the program, so seeing one that is older than 2.5-3.5 YO is a miracle. I have passed probably 10-15 bucks this year so far. Some probably are duplicate sightings but none are bigger than 8 points. The neighbor shot a big bodied 6 point on Sunday afternoon that I most likely passed Sunday morning. About 5-6 years ago I found a gut shot 10 point that wasn't more than 1.5 years old. Still had a short nose, small body and the rack was all within his ears. I would have loved to see that one make it to 6 years old. That is a negative (with reason) of the OBR. I have a couple buddies if I decide to kill some of my yearling bucks, I'd trust late season after most neighbors are done to go in on my property with some young ones as the targets and likely will do this.
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 21, 2023 11:39:53 GMT -5
Get as many bucks to 4+ as possible , provide as much nutrition and food as possible. What would you estimate you spend a year providing food and nutrition?
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Post by greghopper on Nov 21, 2023 11:40:20 GMT -5
With Indiana's OBR, that doesn't leave much leeway for any management. I have on on cam for the past 2, maybe 3 years a spike buck. Each year the spikes are bigger, IIRC I have a pic of him this year and the spikes are 2x as tall as the ears. SO, if I take that one out, then I'm done for the year. With a small property that cannot hold deer on it 24/7/365 what is the point? The neighbors aren't with the program, so seeing one that is older than 2.5-3.5 YO is a miracle. I have passed probably 10-15 bucks this year so far. Some probably are duplicate sightings but none are bigger than 8 points. The neighbor shot a big bodied 6 point on Sunday afternoon that I most likely passed Sunday morning. About 5-6 years ago I found a gut shot 10 point that wasn't more than 1.5 years old. Still had a short nose, small body and the rack was all within his ears. I would have loved to see that one make it to 6 years old. Don’t be the “neighbor”…
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 21, 2023 11:53:05 GMT -5
People tell me all the time, "Well, if I don't shoot it, someone else will." I always reply, "The buck always has a chance of making it through the season. If YOU shoot it, it has zero chance."
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Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Nov 21, 2023 12:11:31 GMT -5
My brother and I talked the other day we are each going to shot a doe early in October and then not hunt until November 9th/10th or when our cameras see daytime activity. We are both hunting for 4.5 plus mature bucks at that point. We know most of the bucks are big tall frame 8 or flat 10 frame bucks. We sometimes see a tall 10 frame buck. Rarely our cameras see 12 fame or bigger bucks. Both of us only need one deer for the freezer. This way we give the woods a month long rest.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 21, 2023 12:17:08 GMT -5
Get as many bucks to 4+ as possible , provide as much nutrition and food as possible. What would you estimate you spend a year providing food and nutrition? Good question?? I run a hay business on side through farm, which generates approx. $15k-$20k annually, that money goes back into farm to cover equipment payments, fuel, feed/mineral, seed, help etc. (I raise alfalfa and various hay types from clover mixes, to grass hay.) I also plant approx. 10 acres or various things for deer such as corn, soybeans, clover, cereal rye, brassicas etc. on a rotation basis. (Some years more, some less). That money pretty much covers my whitetail addiction. LOL. My farm is 134 acres, and I lease a adjoining 95 acres of hunting ground. I hay farm approx. 250 acres total.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 21, 2023 13:03:50 GMT -5
People tell me all the time, "Well, if I don't shoot it, someone else will." I always reply, "The buck always has a chance of making it through the season. If YOU shoot it, it has zero chance." Part of hunting. Passed this buck back on Nov. 11th. One of neighbors grandsons killed opening morning, his 1st buck. I am happy as can be for the young man. (Some make it, some don't.) If given opportunity again knowing this buck would be killed, I still would pass, just because I know what other bucks are here.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 21, 2023 13:06:57 GMT -5
People tell me all the time, "Well, if I don't shoot it, someone else will." I always reply, "The buck always has a chance of making it through the season. If YOU shoot it, it has zero chance." That happened to us more times than I can count, but that is part of the game. The guys on the next 80 acres killed 4 bucks opening day. We had all four on camera and had passed up the two lesser bucks.
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Post by esshup on Nov 21, 2023 14:27:46 GMT -5
People tell me all the time, "Well, if I don't shoot it, someone else will." I always reply, "The buck always has a chance of making it through the season. If YOU shoot it, it has zero chance." I agree. I have left a LOT of bucks walk that anybody would be happy to shoot, hoping that they'd make it one or two more years. One of them I had to shoot with the muzzleloader - it's one that I passed in archery season due to a broken tine. Someone shot it with I believe a .223 during muzzleloader season. I heard the shot at first light and not 20 minutes later the buck came limping by not able to use a front leg. .22 hole thru and thru the front leg "knee". If it's the end of the season I will shoot a small buck. 1) It makes the landowner happy because his trees are getting trashed by bucks. 2) a small buck has more meat than a large doe.
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