bant
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by bant on Jun 11, 2006 15:46:39 GMT -5
I have drifted the White river West Fork From 16th street too Martinsville few time in the last 10 years and always see lots of huge deer. I was told if I check that it is possible too hunt on the flood plains thru out Ind. I am going too check on this but not sure. Since really all flood plains are maintained by the Corp Of Eng. So it is not Private property and most areas fall under urban hunt zones north of Indy. Which could really open up some good hunting areas? Does anyone have any ideas. I am going too start checking with DNR this week.
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Post by duff on Jun 11, 2006 19:51:02 GMT -5
Well the short answer is no you can not hunt flood plains. www.state.in.us/nrc/policy/IV.html You will get some good info there. They claim it is the high water mark. Which is usually where normal vegetation starts growing like trees, grasses, bushes. Ohterwords sandbars should be fair game according to that rule. However it is best to discuss this with the local law. They might veiw it differently. I have always been told if I stay in the water I am fine. If the game animal makes it onto shore I legally need permission to retrieve it or stand on the ground out of the water. This is on "navigable" waterway. On non navigable waterways you can legally float but not allowed to wade or even anchor as I have been told anyways. Hope that helps.
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bant
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by bant on Jun 14, 2006 17:19:54 GMT -5
Yes I kinda figured that there was a boundary of sorts. I have read some on Navigable waterways and yes they are very clear too what that is. I will most likely hunt water and flood plains that are public. Since from what I can tell it is very gray area. Talk too a Couple CO's they recommend do not do except on public lands. Which make good sense. I have seen many hunt from boats along the river but was unsure if they really owned the property that they were in. thus my question.
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Post by duff on Jun 16, 2006 21:46:53 GMT -5
Yea if it is public and they allow hunting I'd guess you are good to go! Assuming you are following their rules for hunting that property.
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Post by cundogiee on Dec 8, 2009 16:05:15 GMT -5
I have been told by DNR themselves at Indianapolis, that if you are in a boat you are good to go. But if you get out and touch the bank or river bottom you will be trespassing. Even if you tie off on a log jam that attaches to land (anyway possible) you are trespassing. They said that if there are 2 different land owners on both sides of the river that there land comes together in the middle of the river. But if your in the water your good to go. But isn't it against the law to shoot in to or across any body of water in the attempt to take an animal!?
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Post by jabba on Dec 24, 2009 9:58:27 GMT -5
I used to hunt there too. From the county line south to Martinsville. We based it essentially on the National River Law. But... there are LEO's and CO's hunting in there now, and they are defending it vehemently. They have never been able to cite us... but have made doing it such a hassle, my buddies don't want to do it anymore. I still would, but I am willing to go to court to fight it. They are not.
Honestly, all the places we always hunted are not the same as they USED to be either. It's a lot more open, and not as brushy, plus there is a lot of quad traffic in there, and a lot more hunting pressure than ever before.
It sucks now. But I have never been north of Southport Road.
Jabba
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Post by freedomhunter on Dec 24, 2009 10:26:48 GMT -5
I would hope the law gets changed to include sandbars, get tired of picking up trash.
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Post by tenring on Dec 24, 2009 11:51:22 GMT -5
A very simple way to put it is, do you own the land on either side of the water line? If not, then some one else does! Permission required.
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Post by jabba on Dec 24, 2009 13:07:45 GMT -5
The national river law says that navable river banks are public land up to the "AVERAGE YEARLY HIGH WATER MARK" That would include a lot of the brushy flood plain along the white river. 16. Where is the ordinary high water line?
As with the definition of navigability itself, the courts have not formulated a scientific, measurable definition for the ordinary high water line (or ordinary high water mark.) But as with navigability, people keep searching for a scientific definition. You could say that it is the highest that the water gets under normal conditions during the course of a year, but not the highest it gets during extreme flooding. The courts have not been scientific about the difference between normal and extreme conditions. In the related matter of the high water line on ocean beaches, some courts have referred to a "debris line" left by the highest water at high tide, with normal waves but not under storm conditions.www.nationalrivers.org/us-law-who-owns.htmCase law is not well established in Indiana though. It'd be a dice roll if you went to court over it. I'd be willing to though. There isn't any way to gun hunt Marion County though I wouldn't think... because of the ordinance prohibiting the discharge of fire arms except within specially designated areas. I keep meaning to research that ordinace but never seem to find the time. Jabba
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Post by tobias on Dec 24, 2009 17:58:58 GMT -5
If you stay in the "high water" marks or out of the grass-line your fine. If you get up on the banks and start walking around your trespassing..............it's not that hard to understand! I can also tell you that it would be a roll of the dice in an Indiana Court that you WILL NOT WIN!
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Post by jabba on Dec 25, 2009 12:12:34 GMT -5
If you stay in the "high water" marks or out of the grass-line your fine. If you get up on the banks and start walking around your trespassing..............it's not that hard to understand! I can also tell you that it would be a roll of the dice in an Indiana Court that you WILL NOT WIN! Not wanting to fight... but how do you dismiss the FEDERAL law that says all land up to the AVERAGE YEARLY high water mark is held in public trust, and can not be owned by an individual? That's not that hard to understand either. Yet... many, and by that I mean most people, belive like you, that it's essentiall only the BANKS on the river that are public land. Do you own or hunt any river land? Jabba
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Post by duff on Dec 25, 2009 12:16:28 GMT -5
If you stay in the "high water" marks or out of the grass-line your fine. If you get up on the banks and start walking around your trespassing..............it's not that hard to understand! I can also tell you that it would be a roll of the dice in an Indiana Court that you WILL NOT WIN! Agreed. If you are walking and hunting in the brushy area you are tresspassing. The normal high water marks are well defined and don't include brush.
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Post by jabba on Dec 25, 2009 13:24:25 GMT -5
I still say... there are places along the White river flood plain that are covered by water in a "normal" year. According to the way the National River Law reads... that land IS held for the public trust. Not... extrordinary flood years either... simply, coverered with water, during a normal year.
Jabba
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Post by tobias on Dec 25, 2009 16:37:52 GMT -5
Jabba............I DO own property along the river. I'm not tryin to start anything, I'm simply stating what I know. I've delt w/ trespassers in the past as well as many CO's. It's a battle you not going to win. As long as your in the river banks your not going to have any problems. Once you get out of the banks you can be charged w/ trespassing. As far as the courts go................I've yet to ever hear of a case where an Indiana court didn't side w/ the property own.
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Post by jabba on Dec 25, 2009 16:55:12 GMT -5
That's exactly my point. YOU got a dog in the fight.
I have done some research... and I have yet to find where Indiana has had a challenge to National River Law. YOU are one of the guys that thinks you own the land that floods every year. Even if your deed SAYS you do... according to FEDERAL law you don't.
Now... According to many many CO's... and other LEO's as well, you're right. That still doesn't make it RIGHT.
Over 100 years ago... the FEDERAL government saw fit, to hold in PUBLIC trust all navicable waterways, that INCLUDES the land that gets covered by water in a NORMAL year.
I probably agree with you... you'd get arrested, and probably get found guilty. That to me is a crying shame, and totally unacceptable. It's like privatizing national parks... or other federal land, just because you want to.
It's nothing personal. Been sort of one of my little crusades for a long time.
People that "own" land that floods most years don't own it. It's held in the public trust according to the National River Law. You guys might have the LEO's and courts bought... but I say again... that does not make it right.
Jabba
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Post by tobias on Dec 25, 2009 17:30:57 GMT -5
It the LEO's, CO's, and courts say it's right.........then I feel pretty confident in what I'm saying. I've delt w/ people that believe exactly what you do. I tell them they're trespassing and most will apollogize, we have a friendly chat, and we all go on our merry way. Some want to be hard-headed and come back. When they do we all have a little court date and the CO will show up and let the judge know the situation and the trespasser usually wishes he'd have just listened the first time.
Go ahead and fight it.............you'd better have a big bank account cause your have every property owner along every river fighting against you on it.
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Post by jabba on Dec 25, 2009 19:18:08 GMT -5
Ah... and that's the bottom line right there. Ya'll think you're "ownership" trumps FEDERAL law.
Personally, when the government passes the laws to take my guns away... and the LEO's and courts back the laws up... I am not capitulating to that either. It's WRONG. It's just as WRONG as this is WRONG. I am not talking about how it's enforced. I am talking about morality, and right and WRONG. The rivers are NATIONAL resources. That means they belong to everybody.
We're not gonna solve it here.
I sincerely wish you and yours a merry Christmas.
If I fight it, it won't be by me getting arrested and challenging it. It'll be thru me sueing the state, probably, over how they have been enforcing the law. I have a history of challenging city hall... and winning. Although I am only 1-0. Not a huge track record.
Can I hunt on your river property?
Jabba
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Post by tobias on Dec 25, 2009 20:21:56 GMT -5
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Post by jabba on Dec 25, 2009 21:20:35 GMT -5
I'll take that as not only "no" but "Absolutely not... it's mine, mine MINE!!"
Merry Christmas
Jabba
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Post by Decatur on Dec 25, 2009 22:02:21 GMT -5
YOU are one of the guys that thinks you own the land that floods every year. Even if your deed SAYS you do... according to FEDERAL law you don't. Jabba No offense, but I'll bet he pays taxes on what his deed says he owns! Personally, I think you would p*** off a lot of landowners if you took something like this to court. I would hate to lose my hunting properties to gain 75' of river bank! $.02
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