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Post by medic22 on Dec 27, 2020 21:28:28 GMT -5
Ok a lot to cover here. Kids learn to drink from mom and dad. Kids will more readily learn how to smoke pot by the same means. Kids get beer from a number of ways but someone's older brother that needs a couple bucks can supply a party with beer pretty quick. Make pot legal and you've just opened up a whole new avenue to get it to the young people. There was always that line of "It doesn't matter what age you are pot is illegal" with beer we were taking a risk but if you put it in mom and dad's hand you can sure bet it's going to get into more kid's hands. As far as making tobacco illegal, it'll never happen but I'd love to see it happen I've seen so much cancer because of it. Just because its legal doesnt mean mom and dad are magically gonna start smoking pot in front of their kids. Those people are doing it now.
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Post by Russ Koon on Dec 27, 2020 21:30:40 GMT -5
I'm not advocating for the use of marijuana, other drugs, alcohol, or tobacco. I'm also against sniffing glue, overeating, driving too fast, and climbing trees without being hooked to a lifeline constantly.
But I doubt that the laws against the activities mentioned really have much effect on their use by people who choose to do so.
If we are to use laws to "send a message" that we disapprove of the substance or action, maybe we should also consider laws against large speakers and powerful amps in cars and trucks, pants worn halfway down to the knees, and a bunch of other stuff I would rather not see, like anything in Spandex in a size larger than medium.
Laws should only be involved when they can actually do some good. If a law banning something is so often disregarded as to be completely ineffective, it should probably be repealed, for that reason alone. But if it's a law against the possession of a substance, and that law has the effect of creating a lucrative black market for the substance, with the resulting turf wars and discounted marketing to pre-teens to get them hookedand recruit them into the marketing, then it certainly does more harm than good.
The country learned that lesson with Prohibition nearly a hundred years ago, but we seem to have largely forgotten it in favor of supporting a law that has long ago proven itself to be ineffective in reducing the use of the banned substance, and very effective at creating the most lucrative illegal market since the 1920's.
Pretty sure all the major crime syndicates are dead set against legalization.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 21:52:49 GMT -5
I'm not advocating for the use of marijuana, other drugs, alcohol, or tobacco. I'm also against sniffing glue, overeating, driving too fast, and climbing trees without being hooked to a lifeline constantly. But I doubt that the laws against the activities mentioned really have much effect on their use by people who choose to do so. If we are to use laws to "send a message" that we disapprove of the substance or action, maybe we should also consider laws against large speakers and powerful amps in cars and trucks, pants worn halfway down to the knees, and a bunch of other stuff I would rather not see, like anything in Spandex in a size larger than medium. Laws should only be involved when they can actually do some good. If a law banning something is so often disregarded as to be completely ineffective, it should probably be repealed, for that reason alone. But if it's a law against the possession of a substance, and that law has the effect of creating a lucrative black market for the substance, with the resulting turf wars and discounted marketing to pre-teens to get them hookedand recruit them into the marketing, then it certainly does more harm than good. The country learned that lesson with Prohibition nearly a hundred years ago, but we seem to have largely forgotten it in favor of supporting a law that has long ago proven itself to be ineffective in reducing the use of the banned substance, and very effective at creating the most lucrative illegal market since the 1920's. Pretty sure all the major crime syndicates are dead set against legalization. While I get what you`re saying in regards to the "war on drugs", I cannot, will not accept that we ought to accept an evil simply because the fight against it is too difficult.
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Post by Ahawkeye on Dec 27, 2020 22:05:58 GMT -5
Ok a lot to cover here. Kids learn to drink from mom and dad. Kids will more readily learn how to smoke pot by the same means. Kids get beer from a number of ways but someone's older brother that needs a couple bucks can supply a party with beer pretty quick. Make pot legal and you've just opened up a whole new avenue to get it to the young people. There was always that line of "It doesn't matter what age you are pot is illegal" with beer we were taking a risk but if you put it in mom and dad's hand you can sure bet it's going to get into more kid's hands. As far as making tobacco illegal, it'll never happen but I'd love to see it happen I've seen so much cancer because of it. Just because its legal doesnt mean mom and dad are magically gonna start smoking pot in front of their kids. Those people are doing it now. But it starts there, it will move down the line as time goes on. Why do we want to open this door? Look I don't know what you see in your day to day probably a bunch of meth od's and who knows what else. I know this is a long read but these are real people telling you not to legalize pot forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=490115&forum=36Check it out. These guys are hunters and fisherman and hard workers just like you and I these are their stories about this. I know I don't like the idea of tent cities in downtown Evansville or Newberg. Much more than that I don't want to have to go hunt someone down that I care about in one of those. This stuff is real and it's real bad legalizing pot in my mind is just the first step to get there.
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Post by Ahawkeye on Dec 27, 2020 22:11:45 GMT -5
I'm not advocating for the use of marijuana, other drugs, alcohol, or tobacco. I'm also against sniffing glue, overeating, driving too fast, and climbing trees without being hooked to a lifeline constantly. But I doubt that the laws against the activities mentioned really have much effect on their use by people who choose to do so. If we are to use laws to "send a message" that we disapprove of the substance or action, maybe we should also consider laws against large speakers and powerful amps in cars and trucks, pants worn halfway down to the knees, and a bunch of other stuff I would rather not see, like anything in Spandex in a size larger than medium. Laws should only be involved when they can actually do some good. If a law banning something is so often disregarded as to be completely ineffective, it should probably be repealed, for that reason alone. But if it's a law against the possession of a substance, and that law has the effect of creating a lucrative black market for the substance, with the resulting turf wars and discounted marketing to pre-teens to get them hookedand recruit them into the marketing, then it certainly does more harm than good. The country learned that lesson with Prohibition nearly a hundred years ago, but we seem to have largely forgotten it in favor of supporting a law that has long ago proven itself to be ineffective in reducing the use of the banned substance, and very effective at creating the most lucrative illegal market since the 1920's. Pretty sure all the major crime syndicates are dead set against legalization. The only reason they're against it is because it takes the money out of their hands. The problem still exists and then it grows.
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Post by jjas on Dec 27, 2020 22:44:40 GMT -5
hunter xmax Here's where you lost me. Let's not legalize weed, and outlaw tobacco, but leave my alcohol alone... While I'm not advocating the use of any of it, I'll wager that alcohol has caused more misery such as domestic violence, and car accidents than tobacco and weed combined have. This is a rare time where I actually agree with you about alcohol and tobacco, but where you lose me is, the thinking that says, sure alcohol and tobacco have cost lives and quality of life, so let`s heap more misery on society by making yet another gateway drug into the mix to screw up even more people... Here's what I wrote... Where did I say legalize it?
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Post by jjas on Dec 27, 2020 22:47:46 GMT -5
Hunter xmas
And you don't think that kids seeing their parents getting drunk on weekends doesn't open the door to alcohol use/abuse by those kids?
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Post by Russ Koon on Dec 28, 2020 0:57:50 GMT -5
Josey and hunter, I agree that the use of the drugs is nothing to promote or support.
The point I try to make is that the current situation making it illegal, didn't work. It's been illegal since 1937 in the case of marijuana, and even earlier in the case of opium and cocaine. Those drugs are not only still being abused and sold in greater quantities than before they were banned, but they are being sold, manufactured, and often stolen, BECAUSE of the MONEY they bring. And that high profit margin is due to the fact that they can't be grown, made, or sold on the open market by legal companies.
Hunter, you are exactly right in your statement that the only reason the crime syndicates are against legalization is that it would take money out of their hands. But taking the profits out of selling it would remove their motivation to peddle it to kids and enlist other kids into their business.
It would also reduce the incentive for others to make fake pills or powder that is often even more dangerous than the real thing for sale to the dopers.
If the profit motive isn't there, the marketing and sales of the product should decrease. And I think our relationship with our southern neighbors would be improved if we shut down the money flowing to the drug cartels that have taken over territories in their countries using their illegal drug money they make from the rich markets across the border from them.
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Post by Ahawkeye on Dec 28, 2020 4:14:19 GMT -5
Hunter xmas And you don't think that kids seeing their parents getting drunk on weekends doesn't open the door to alcohol use/abuse by those kids? I agree but why open a new door. For yhe record, I don't get hammered in front of my kids.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 28, 2020 8:33:13 GMT -5
Josey and hunter, I agree that the use of the drugs is nothing to promote or support. The point I try to make is that the current situation making it illegal, didn't work. It's been illegal since 1937 in the case of marijuana, and even earlier in the case of opium and cocaine. Those drugs are not only still being abused and sold in greater quantities than before they were banned, but they are being sold, manufactured, and often stolen, BECAUSE of the MONEY they bring. And that high profit margin is due to the fact that they can't be grown, made, or sold on the open market by legal companies. Hunter, you are exactly right in your statement that the only reason the crime syndicates are against legalization is that it would take money out of their hands. But taking the profits out of selling it would remove their motivation to peddle it to kids and enlist other kids into their business. It would also reduce the incentive for others to make fake pills or powder that is often even more dangerous than the real thing for sale to the dopers. If the profit motive isn't there, the marketing and sales of the product should decrease. And I think our relationship with our southern neighbors would be improved if we shut down the money flowing to the drug cartels that have taken over territories in their countries using their illegal drug money they make from the rich markets across the border from them. This ^^^...... Good to see that someone sees the big picture!
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Post by greghopper on Dec 28, 2020 8:36:12 GMT -5
Hunter xmas And you don't think that kids seeing their parents getting drunk on weekends doesn't open the door to alcohol use/abuse by those kids? I . For yhe record, I don't get hammered in front of my kids. You know the “Stoner’s” are saying the very same thing.
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Post by jjas on Dec 28, 2020 8:48:26 GMT -5
Hunter xmas And you don't think that kids seeing their parents getting drunk on weekends doesn't open the door to alcohol use/abuse by those kids? I agree but why open a new door. For yhe record, I don't get hammered in front of my kids. I never said you got hammered in front of your kids, but plenty of people do and because booze is legal, it's accepted by society. My whole point in this discussion has been quite simple. If marijuana were legal (which I think it will be @ some point in Indiana), I don't think it's any worse than booze, and in fact, I think it will cause fewer problems than booze does in society.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 28, 2020 8:53:10 GMT -5
I agree but why open a new door. For yhe record, I don't get hammered in front of my kids. I never said you got hammered in front of your kids, but plenty of people do and because booze is legal, it's accepted by society. My whole point in this discussion has been quite simple. If marijuana were legal (which I think it will be @ some point in Indiana), I don't think it's any worse than booze, and in fact, I think it will cause fewer problems than booze does in society. I agree for the most part.... but not everyone drinks till they are hammered or drunk. I would say the casual drinker way out number the Hammered/drunks IMO
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Post by jjas on Dec 28, 2020 9:31:10 GMT -5
I never said you got hammered in front of your kids, but plenty of people do and because booze is legal, it's accepted by society. My whole point in this discussion has been quite simple. If marijuana were legal (which I think it will be @ some point in Indiana), I don't think it's any worse than booze, and in fact, I think it will cause fewer problems than booze does in society. I agree for the most part.... but not everyone drinks till they are hammered or drunk. I would say the casual drinker way out number the Hammered/drunks IMO I was speaking in generalities, as there are obviously plenty of people who just drink on occasion and alcohol is never a negative issue in their lives.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 9:39:28 GMT -5
I make my own beer and never had issues with it. I seldom drink more than three a day and most 5 or 6. On the 5 or 6 it's like 2pm to night time. One of the rare days a couple times a year that I'm taking it easy and have nowhere to go. Just like everything else it's personally mental strength to control themselves and their limitations. Some it's zero and some it's more. If we taught to love ourselves and self awareness we would not need all the regulations on anything. We wouldn't need all the government. We could govern yourselves.
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Post by duff on Dec 28, 2020 11:14:10 GMT -5
I make my own beer and never had issues with it. I seldom drink more than three a day and most 5 or 6. On the 5 or 6 it's like 2pm to night time. One of the rare days a couple times a year that I'm taking it easy and have nowhere to go. Just like everything else it's personally mental strength to control themselves and their limitations. Some it's zero and some it's more. If we taught to love ourselves and self awareness we would not need all the regulations on anything. We wouldn't need all the government. We could govern yourselves. Agreed and while you can legally drink until you pass out you can't legally operate a vehicle impaired or be in public. I would think weed would be the same. I am all for decriminalization for a lot of reasons. I do not see any of the negative aspects of it. The process should be the same for weed as it is for beer wine and liquor. With as accessible as weed is, legally and illegally, I am not sure what risk is being avoided by keeping it criminal to possess or consume weed.
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Post by beermaker on Dec 28, 2020 11:58:12 GMT -5
I make my own beer and never had issues with it. I seldom drink more than three a day and most 5 or 6. On the 5 or 6 it's like 2pm to night time. One of the rare days a couple times a year that I'm taking it easy and have nowhere to go. Just like everything else it's personally mental strength to control themselves and their limitations. Some it's zero and some it's more. If we taught to love ourselves and self awareness we would not need all the regulations on anything. We wouldn't need all the government. We could govern yourselves. Agreed and while you can legally drink until you pass out you can't legally operate a vehicle impaired or be in public. I would think weed would be the same. I am all for decriminalization for a lot of reasons. I do not see any of the negative aspects of it. The process should be the same for weed as it is for beer wine and liquor. With as accessible as weed is, legally and illegally, I am not sure what risk is being avoided by keeping it criminal to possess or consume weed. I've never understood why something that can be grown and then consumed in it's natural form is illegal. I tried marijuana a few times in college and did not like it. That was 25+ years ago and I have never had the desire to try it again. I have no problem with anyone that does enjoy it responsibly. My 73 year old FIL smokes it at the end of every day when he is home for good.
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