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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 15:47:45 GMT -5
After having had a muzzleloader out in the cold, I try to remember to leave it out in our unheated garage so it doesn`t build up any condensation and possibly cause an issue with igniting my 777 pellets. (This time I did forget and I brought it into the warm house).
How important is this? Will modern muzzleloaders and new black powder substitutes experience ignition issues if you`re careless about watching the loaded muzzleloader`s environment? Is a one-time slip up probably ok? What do you do to maintain the integrity of your black powder substitute once your muzzleloader is loaded for hunting and has been in the cold?
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Post by titanium700 on Dec 6, 2020 16:04:39 GMT -5
I don’t think so but as a precautionary (maybe it’s because I’m anal about my hunting things) I would always plug the barrel with some cotton and the cap the same.
Never had issues.
Even left some over from the previous year....albeit I didn’t hunt with it I shot it sighting in prior to my hunt it always went boom.
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Post by bill9068 on Dec 6, 2020 16:46:00 GMT -5
Don’t take it from extreme cold to warm indoors. The barrel will sweat and degrade the powder. One year I took my in-line inside after every hunt, I didn’t shoot that year so on the last hunt I fired it off only it didn’t fire. I pulled the charge later and the powder was wet. From then on it stayed in the garage till I shot.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 6, 2020 18:24:12 GMT -5
Yeah... we haven’t had any extreme cold yet!
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Post by bill9068 on Dec 6, 2020 18:44:25 GMT -5
Well, I’m in southern Indiana and we never have extreme cold. Just giving first hand experience.
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Post by stevein on Dec 6, 2020 19:17:47 GMT -5
In my experience the old cold-hot is pure BS. That is based on traditional caplock and flintlocks using black powder. Also based on wether it has been fired or not. Shoot it and reload, you better dump the load and clean when you get home.
I transport my guns in a wool lined canvas bag. It warms slowly. Nipples are covered with leather and hammer lowered, flints have a tapered pin in the touch hole and a stall on the frizzen.
The flash hole in a nipple is about .045". Touchhole about .073. Not much moisture will get in through them. Black powder is coated with graphite to inhibit it taking on moisture. If you have a problem with moisture the next day either you did not clean it good enough before you loaded it or there was still oil in the breech.
Pyrodex will suck up moisture like a sponge. I do not know about the rest of the subs. Fired black powder will cause a mess.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 19:22:42 GMT -5
Well, I’m in southern Indiana and we never have extreme cold. Just giving first hand experience. I wasn`t thinking "extreme" cold, just "cold", which I would consider to be anything below 35 degrees... |
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Post by bill9068 on Dec 6, 2020 19:31:43 GMT -5
You take a piece of metal from 35 degree to 70 degree and it will sweat.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 19:33:23 GMT -5
You take a piece of metal from 35 degree to 70 degree and it will sweat. What I don`t know is, if 777 pellets are hygroscopic, and if so, to what extent... If they are hygroscopic and readily absorb moisture, then there obviously might be ignition issues, but could there also potentially be velocity issues resulting in a less than clean kill? |
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Post by greghopper on Dec 6, 2020 19:40:19 GMT -5
Why not take the Breech plug out and unload it ... pretty simple unless the gun is really old.
That would been what I would’ve done ... but that’s me! BTDT
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Post by bill9068 on Dec 6, 2020 20:13:13 GMT -5
In my experience the old cold-hot is pure BS. That is based on traditional caplock and flintlocks using black powder. Also based on wether it has been fired or not. Shoot it and reload, you better dump the load and clean when you get home. I transport my guns in a wool lined canvas bag. It warms slowly. Nipples are covered with leather and hammer lowered, flints have a tapered pin in the touch hole and a stall on the frizzen. The flash hole in a nipple is about .045". Touchhole about .073. Not much moisture will get in through them. Black powder is coated with graphite to inhibit it taking on moisture. If you have a problem with moisture the next day either you did not clean it good enough before you loaded it or there was still oil in the breech. Pyrodex will suck up moisture like a sponge. I do not know about the rest of the subs. Fired black powder will cause a mess. You are right about the oil causing problems. Using pre measured pellets however are made to be just a bit smaller than your gun bore. After you seat your ball or sabot there is room for moisture to form when going in and out if cold weather. You remove your primer when done hunting and there’s another place moisture can enter. I know it isn’t going to happen after one or two hunts, but after a 16 day muzzle loader season it can and did to me. You are also right that I never had that problem with black powder on my hawken 50 cal. The powder was packed tight enough to keep moister out using ball and patch. I’ve always used bore butter in my muzzleloaders, maybe that was the issue in the inline? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 4:18:33 GMT -5
In my experience the old cold-hot is pure BS. That is based on traditional caplock and flintlocks using black powder. Also based on wether it has been fired or not. Shoot it and reload, you better dump the load and clean when you get home. I transport my guns in a wool lined canvas bag. It warms slowly. Nipples are covered with leather and hammer lowered, flints have a tapered pin in the touch hole and a stall on the frizzen. The flash hole in a nipple is about .045". Touchhole about .073. Not much moisture will get in through them. Black powder is coated with graphite to inhibit it taking on moisture. If you have a problem with moisture the next day either you did not clean it good enough before you loaded it or there was still oil in the breech. Pyrodex will suck up moisture like a sponge. I do not know about the rest of the subs. Fired black powder will cause a mess. You are right about the oil causing problems. Using pre measured pellets however are made to be just a bit smaller than your gun bore. After you seat your ball or sabot there is room for moisture to form when going in and out if cold weather. You remove your primer when done hunting and there’s another place moisture can enter. I know it isn’t going to happen after one or two hunts, but after a 16 day muzzle loader season it can and did to me. You are also right that I never had that problem with black powder on my hawken 50 cal. The powder was packed tight enough to keep moister out using ball and patch. I’ve always used bore butter in my muzzleloaders, maybe that was the issue in the inline? I always snap off a cap, or today, a .209 shotgun primer or two before loading, and that has always gotten rid of any oil or gun cleaning solvent that might be in the breech plug. Never had an issue there. |
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Post by span870 on Dec 7, 2020 4:59:37 GMT -5
Not going to be an issue unless you do it time after time after time.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 7, 2020 9:04:51 GMT -5
Not going to be an issue unless you do it time after time after time. This^^^^.... the gun in question was just loaded Friday pm! |
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Post by esshup on Dec 7, 2020 9:09:03 GMT -5
I may be different because I shoot a smokeless muzzleloader and use regular rifle powder, but I try to keep the gun in the cold - either leave it in the truck or if I DO bring it in the house it is in the case when I bring it inside and I do not open the case inside the house.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2020 11:05:03 GMT -5
I contacted Hodgdon and finally heard back. The tech said that yes, indeed, 777 pellets are extremely hygroscopic, and to do as much as possible to keep the loaded rifle in a constant temperature environment.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 9, 2020 12:12:25 GMT -5
I contacted Hodgdon and finally heard back. The tech said that yes, indeed, 777 pellets are extremely hygroscopic, and to do as much as possible to keep the loaded rifle in a constant temperature environment. That’s exactly the answer I would expected them to say.... They are covered if someone does different! |
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Post by esshup on Dec 9, 2020 23:52:31 GMT -5
With an inline, tape over the muzzle and insert a spent primer in the breech plug and that should stop any issues you are having.
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Post by stevein on Dec 10, 2020 9:18:25 GMT -5
Getting a case that breathes will help too. If you bring your gun straight in from the cold and remove it from the case it will sweat just like your glasses. Let it warm up to room temp in a breathable case. Even a cheap strechy gun sleeve will help.
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Post by Russ Koon on Dec 10, 2020 10:50:31 GMT -5
I used to leave my ML in the truck between hunts to prevent condensation issues, but after a few years of doing so I realized that the temps in the back of my truck had varied more than they would have in my garage. This is Indiana and the temp range in November and December, exacerbated by the solar gain through truck or camper windows on the sunny days, is normally quite a bit on a daily basis and more over the three or four days that often pass between hunts.
I began loading inside the house before opening morning, and keeping a cheap party balloon over the muzzle the entire time until the first shot removes it. I actually began that practice after hunting in a light rain a couple of times while trying to remember to keep the muzzle pointed downwards at all times, and discovering at the end of the season that my attempt to keep my powder dry had failed miserably. The party balloons were about a dollar for a bag of 100, and I still have about 95 of them left after shooting a few times with one on to check for any effect on impact point. There was none at 100 yards. And I've never had a failure of my end-of-season barrel cleaning shot since either, so it seems to work well. I did need to remove the front sight from my CVA to permit the balloon to fit securely over the muzzle, but I had no plans to hunt without the scope anyway (old eyes).
I never thought about capping the nipple with a used 209 primer for indoor storage. Seems shaky at first blush, having a primer in place while indoors, but it should actually be completely safe as long as it's ABSOLUTELY, 100% SURE a USED primer!! I never had any condensation issues just leaving it uncapped, but I suppose capping with a used one would provide an extra measure of protection against it.
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