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Post by hornharvester on Aug 15, 2006 14:35:48 GMT -5
arent the smokeless muzzleloaders just a reinvention of the single shot centerfire rifle? since the primer doesn't set in the middle of a case like a center fire rifle and they don't load from the breech like a center fire rifle but load from the muzzle like any other muzzle loader and use the same bullets/sabots and primers as a modern in-line muzzle loader, i say no. the only difference is the propellant they use. matter of fact Knight boast of 2600 fps using three pellets of 777 in one of their .45 muzzle loaders and 150 grn bullet. h.h.
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Post by cedararrow on Aug 16, 2006 7:02:44 GMT -5
Dec I wasnt trying to stir any pot so your comments can sit somewhere else as far as Im concerned... I reckon ill get a warning for this.
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Indianahunter
Full Member
Green..green..green...Go..go..go..
Posts: 60
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Post by Indianahunter on Aug 16, 2006 15:40:05 GMT -5
Standard SMI barrel on NEF frame with Zeiss Conquest 3x9x40. .40 cal. 200 grain SST with MMP blue sabot. 43 grains of N-110. Lower right shot was the fouling shot. Upper right is the next two shots!! Shots 4,5,6 are 1" to 1 1/2" high... 97 yards laser verified... Barnes 275grain XPB with Harvester standard black sabot. 57 grains of N-120. Shot by "Grouse" with my gun at a laser verified 87 yards.
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Indianahunter
Full Member
Green..green..green...Go..go..go..
Posts: 60
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Post by Indianahunter on Aug 16, 2006 15:41:11 GMT -5
My HB #106 as pictured has a Luepold VX-I 2x7x33 Scope with Burris Signiture Select rings and bases. The setup used to shoot the following groups had my Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10x50 mounted with Warne rings and bases. Group 1 Barnes 300 MZ 45.2 grains 5744 MMP Sabot provided with bullet 209-A primer Group 2 Buffalo Bullet 375 SSB 68 grains 2015 MMP Sabot provided with bullet 209-A primer Love this load but the recoil is stout. I have shot simular groups with up to 70 grains of 2015. Group 3 Hornady .458 300gn HP 45.2 grains 5744 MMP orange Sabot 209-A primer I'm sure I can impove upon this group as the last shot was a called flier...
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Post by hunter480 on Aug 17, 2006 20:17:59 GMT -5
arent the smokeless muzzleloaders just a reinvention of the single shot centerfire rifle? Don`t think you can say a muzzleloader is a single-shot centerfire...... too many variances. Powder charge can vary if measured by volume, a dirty bore doesn`t shoot like a clean bore, if not tamped the same every time the pressures can be different, etc. Nope-NOT a single-shot centerfire.
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Post by hunter480 on Aug 17, 2006 20:21:08 GMT -5
My HB #106 as pictured has a Luepold VX-I 2x7x33 Scope with Burris Signiture Select rings and bases. The setup used to shoot the following groups had my Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10x50 mounted with Warne rings and bases. Group 1 Barnes 300 MZ 45.2 grains 5744 MMP Sabot provided with bullet 209-A primer Group 2 Buffalo Bullet 375 SSB 68 grains 2015 MMP Sabot provided with bullet 209-A primer Love this load but the recoil is stout. I have shot simular groups with up to 70 grains of 2015. Group 3 Hornady .458 300gn HP 45.2 grains 5744 MMP orange Sabot 209-A primer I'm sure I can impove upon this group as the last shot was a called flier... Were you shooting at the Marion County Conservation club in the photo? It looks like it could have been. And how did you get those groups with a muzzleloader? Getting a muzzleloader to shoot right and group well is one of the universes great mysteries for me.
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Indianahunter
Full Member
Green..green..green...Go..go..go..
Posts: 60
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Post by Indianahunter on Aug 18, 2006 14:09:53 GMT -5
Hunter480, the range in the pictures is located up by Gas City. Ron Name the manufacture of SMI barrels is a member there and I shoot with him from time to time.
Because you have so many options with powders/sabots/bullets/primers you can really dial in a smokeless powder muzzleloader. Also, they are so clean you have very little residue in the bore to effect loading the next shot so you can be very consistent. Right out of the box with factory loads its a 2" gun and with a bit of tweeking it can be a 1" or less everytime. I'd be very happy to help you or anyone with questions about setting up their Savage, SMI, NULA as I have all three smokeless powder muzzleloaders....
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Post by greenhunter111 on Oct 24, 2006 21:11:10 GMT -5
I'm ignorant when you called it your HB #106.....I assume HB is for Heavy Barrel? Please tell me more about the rifle. It's interesting especially since you have it dialed in so well.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Oct 24, 2006 21:50:47 GMT -5
I use my Hawkin .50 Cal Percussion and my son uses Bobcat .50 Cal Percussion during Shotgun season. If it really wet out than we'll use our Shotguns ... M/L first choice.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 25, 2006 9:55:16 GMT -5
While I prefer Open Sighted Flintlocks, I have a ML barrel for my Red-Dot mounted Mossberg 500 that alows me to hunt with shotgun guys without weirding them out. I HATE slugs.
360gr Minnie and 100gr 777 does a number.
Would like to see a "Traditional/Primitive - only" season tho. Huge range & tactics difference between an open-sight no-sabot Sidelock and any sort of scoped inline.
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Post by hornharvester on Oct 25, 2006 11:28:25 GMT -5
Would like to see a "Traditional/Primitive - only" season tho. Huge range & tactics difference between an open-sight no-sabot Sidelock and any sort of scoped inline. Me too, flints, percussion with blackpowder only and patch or maxi's and open sights. Bring it in with archery Oct 1 - 8. h.h.
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Post by crazyboutduck on Oct 25, 2006 11:35:53 GMT -5
Other than archery, I only use my muzzle loader. I love my smokepoles!
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Post by wolfhound on Oct 25, 2006 11:57:17 GMT -5
Would like to see a "Traditional/Primitive - only" season tho. Huge range & tactics difference between an open-sight no-sabot Sidelock and any sort of scoped inline. Just one more thing to have to buy and get another tag for. There's already a muzzleloader season. Guess that's not good enough. Let's see, we need a stickbow season, one for bows with training wheels, a crossbow season, a combined archery season, firearms season, a muzzleloader season, a traditional ML season, a Black powder cartridge rifle season, a handgun season, a dog and knife season, and a spear season. Did I forget any? Oh yeah, a trapping season! There are too many seasons as it is. Let's just make it deer season and hunt with whatever legal weapon you want. All these special seasons do is divide hunters.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 25, 2006 17:19:47 GMT -5
Actually, I think the seasons should be range and tactics based, not "weapon design" based. But that would require that the DNR actually take the time to learn things like Ballistic Tables.
But, in a sense you are right. In Indiana where we aren't really supposed to be shooting at over 200yds anyway, there is less need for a "Primitive" season than in other States where the intent of a ML season (to "handicap" hunters by forcing them to hunt with short range, weather finicky firearms) has been co-opted by long-range, flat-shooting scoped inlines.
I've always thought that one of the larger reasons for bow/primitive seasons was to encourage people to learn the "old ways". While there are some of us who would do so anyway, many (most?) people wouldn't even try without a "special" season.
Gott admit though, an atl-atl season sure would be interesting...
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Post by wolfhound on Oct 25, 2006 17:49:59 GMT -5
Actually, I think the seasons should be range and tactics based, not "weapon design" based. But that would require that the DNR actually take the time to learn things like Ballistic Tables. At the very most there should be only two seasons. Archery (including crossbows) and firearm. Give them equal time to hunt. I wouldn't know, I don't hunt in the muzzleloader only season. The only time I did, I didn't care for it even though I got my deer. For us it's the second half of the firearm season and the weekend immediately following it. Archery was part of PE when I was in Jr. High, recurves and wooden arrows. Other parts of the curriculum were bowling and square dancing. I still enjoy shooting my bow but do not like hunting with it. Perhaps. I really wouldn't be interested though. I've already found the weapon I enjoy most.
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Post by dearbornx on Oct 26, 2006 21:08:37 GMT -5
Knight Bighorn w/ 4X leupold scope.
T/C Hawken w/ 58 cal. Green Mtn. drop-in barrel.
THe Hawken is more fun.
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