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Post by buckert on Dec 22, 2019 10:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by firstwd on Dec 22, 2019 11:06:20 GMT -5
No, he's an assistant director and deer is just no a part of his responsibilities.
I am a firm believer in gathering social input for a part of the decision making process, BUT I am also a firm believer that SCIENCE should trump SOCIAL ideas.
I hope I'm dead wrong, but I see a huge unwanted fight in our future.
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Post by dbd870 on Dec 23, 2019 12:36:47 GMT -5
“Social Science” that sounds concerning.
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 23, 2019 13:35:50 GMT -5
I think what Amanda is meaning when she discusses the "social science" aspect of things is the IDNR and Division of F&W suffers greatly in it's communication skills of things from programs to regulations to just discourse about their various tasks.
We've all seen first hand the misinformation spread throughout the internet and I know Amanda desires the lines of communication to be enhanced and "updated" if you will.
I don't share the same concern over emotions or social opinions governing our regulations, at least not in the deer world. So long as Joe is in the seat he is, he like any logical and intelligent wildlife biologist will fall back on science over anything else always. Now whether all his recommendations occur always is another story or issue.
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Post by firstwd on Dec 23, 2019 17:17:34 GMT -5
If you have any doubt about the "social science" side of wildlife management just look at California and their recent decision to ban trapping, or Indiana's decision several years ago about banning the live sale of coyotes.
Until I see proof otherwise, I'll be concerned.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 23, 2019 17:49:03 GMT -5
If you have any doubt about the "social science" side of wildlife management just look at California and their recent decision to ban trapping, or Indiana's decision several years ago about banning the live sale of coyotes. Until I see proof otherwise, I'll be concerned. Pretty sure most know why the live sale of coyotes got stopped as it should be!!! |
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Post by firstwd on Dec 23, 2019 18:13:13 GMT -5
If you have any doubt about the "social science" side of wildlife management just look at California and their recent decision to ban trapping, or Indiana's decision several years ago about banning the live sale of coyotes. Until I see proof otherwise, I'll be concerned. Pretty sure most know why the live sale of coyotes got stopped as it should be!!! Because the meetings were filled with bunny butt buffer groups showing false videos and lying about the business. |
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Post by boman on Dec 23, 2019 18:33:21 GMT -5
If you have any doubt about the "social science" side of wildlife management just look at California and their recent decision to ban trapping, or Indiana's decision several years ago about banning the live sale of coyotes. Until I see proof otherwise, I'll be concerned. [/quote Me too, "bunny butts" LOL "tree huggers" etc caused the DNR to back off a bobcat season too. Had one of "them" show up at a meeting about the disposition of the central canal here in Indianapolis(I live across the street from it), and she had a campaign to save the muskrat habitat---Jezzz give me a break lady. Steve |
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Post by greghopper on Dec 23, 2019 18:36:41 GMT -5
Pretty sure most know why the live sale of coyotes got stopped as it should be!!! Because the meetings were filled with bunny butt buffer groups showing false videos and lying about the business. That wasn’t the #1 reason.... the main reason was 99% of ALL illegal activity with live trapping and live pen running lead back to Indiana the the Hot bed for coyotes live market.The officials & CO’s of the state didn’t want to be known for that. I am sure it didn’t brother the one selling them that were reaping the dirty money while sipping their whiskey... SMH |
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Post by boman on Dec 23, 2019 18:58:28 GMT -5
Because the meetings were filled with bunny butt buffer groups showing false videos and lying about the business. That wasn’t the #1 reason....The official of the state didn’t want to bee known for that. That official was a bunny butt---caved in like the dnr always does when there's social controversy---which is why the new "social policy is nothing but a can of worms" The "complaint came out of Alabama, by the way, where they wanted to get a guy dealing in the illegal sale of wildlife as well as running a still. didn't have a dog running pen. All Alabama wanted to do was verify the source of the coyotes so they could prove they were transported across state line which is illegal down there. Got this straight from a dnr official. I am sure it didn’t brother the one selling them that were reaping the dirty money while sipping their whiskey... SMH LOL---obviously didn't bother the guy that got busted for breaking wildlife laws in Alabama---LOL Steve |
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Post by nfalls116 on Dec 23, 2019 19:11:12 GMT -5
This thread escalated quickly 😂
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Post by boman on Dec 23, 2019 20:37:20 GMT -5
This thread escalated quickly 😂[/quote This is the guy they busted he had to make room for his hunting dogs and shotguns in the backseat.  Steve |
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Post by ms660 on Dec 23, 2019 23:08:53 GMT -5
Because the meetings were filled with bunny butt buffer groups showing false videos and lying about the business. That wasn’t the #1 reason.... the main reason was 99% of ALL illegal activity with live trapping and live pen running lead back to Indiana the the Hot bed for coyotes live market.The officials & CO’s of the state didn’t want to be known for that. I am sure it didn’t brother the one selling them that were reaping the dirty money while sipping their whiskey... SMH You have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Post by greghopper on Dec 24, 2019 5:41:17 GMT -5
That wasn’t the #1 reason.... the main reason was 99% of ALL illegal activity with live trapping and live pen running lead back to Indiana the the Hot bed for coyotes live market.The officials & CO’s of the state didn’t want to be known for that. I am sure it didn’t brother the one selling them that were reaping the dirty money while sipping their whiskey... SMH You have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah... all the news releases and DNR reporting back then was wrong lol..... But FirstWd has it right! SMH |
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Post by firstwd on Dec 24, 2019 7:03:05 GMT -5
Well, it helps that I was there.
The point is, when "social input" is put before biological science WE lose and the animals lose.
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Post by span870 on Dec 24, 2019 7:09:00 GMT -5
I hate to tippy toe into this one. Not a huge fan of the live market selling of coyotes. Look, if you want to kill em then kill em. Selling to running pens is no different than dog fighting. Anyone who claims the dogs don't kill the coyote is either lying to the public or lying to themselves. I know plenty of houndsman raising coyote dogs and plenty that either used the pens for training or trials. The coyote dies. Maybe not the first or second chase, but the coyote dies. No firearms allowed, but the coyote dies. There is a reason one or two large pens were the biggest buyers on the market. You have to keep replenishing your stock. Raising beagles and owning a running and starting pen I can lie all I want but the stock needs to be replaced. I no longer use wild cottontail's for that reason. Like them or not they actually did the damage to themselves. Posting on social media was the demise. Same as the videos of the ol boys using lurchers chasing coyotes in their truck in a cornfield and releasing the dogs to chase down the coyote. They ain't holding it down for the owner to come catch the coyote. These are the things that will end the use of hounds for hunting. You wanna do it, do it. Just quit posting. I posted ONE time of a rabbit catch and dang near got my throat ripped out, ON A HUNTING PAGE. When non hunters ask about my dogs I just let them know they chase the rabbit and the rabbit just runs a ways in front of them and that's all that needs to be said. Owning hounds is a dying sport. In my lifetime it will see its end. Way more non hunters then houndsman. Heck the infighting among hunters and houndsman cause just as much damage. The quest for horn on one side is killing the sport and the other side of "well dogs can't read no trespassing signs" on the other. The owner can. Be considerate. Is what it is.
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