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Post by greghopper on Jun 6, 2019 12:36:04 GMT -5
Ever seen anyone challenge a baiting ticket and WIN?
That should tell yeah how enforceable the law is. IMO
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Post by tynimiller on Jun 6, 2019 13:53:10 GMT -5
Ever seen anyone challenge a baiting ticket and WIN? That should tell yeah how enforceable the law is. IMO Seen with my own eyes or read about a case? Not that I can recall. However, I know multiple COs that have said they cannot push charge without visible traces of the stuff...or at least will not pursue charges. That alone makes it seem ridiculous to include the "affected soil" section IMO.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 6, 2019 14:12:56 GMT -5
Deer will lick "affected soil " after visual bait is gone that's why it's worded that way I assume.
CO's in county I hunt allow the soil area to be covered with plywood after visual bait is moved/gone vs digging up the soil!
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Post by firstwd on Jun 6, 2019 15:40:01 GMT -5
Deer will lick "affected soil " after visual bait is gone that's why it's worded that way I assume. CO's in county I hunt allow the soil area to be covered with plywood after visual bait is moved/gone vs digging up the soil! And that is the problem. If someone calls and a CO from a different county or different opinion arrives, the ticket can be expensive.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 6, 2019 16:00:36 GMT -5
Deer will lick "affected soil " after visual bait is gone that's why it's worded that way I assume. CO's in county I hunt allow the soil area to be covered with plywood after visual bait is moved/gone vs digging up the soil! And that is the problem. If someone calls and a CO from a different county or different opinion arrives, the ticket can be expensive. I truely doubt any ticket would be written if no visable bait is seen and soil is covered..... but I guess we could "what if "anything. I personally would trust any CO's decision on who's baiting and who's NOT when it is needed! But that's me.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 6, 2019 17:23:12 GMT -5
What our resident CO says in Ask the CO Forum...
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 6, 2019 17:27:38 GMT -5
I agree that it needs to be amended at the very least for better clarification. I was told that it's illegal to shoot a deer where there movements are influenced by that bait or mineral site. If that's true, then a neighbor that hunts but still puts out a pile of corn to "watch" the deer could affect you if you were hunting on your property if the CO said "the deer are moving here on your property because of the neighbors bait pile so I am interpreting the rule as you are hunting over bait and here's your fine. The DNR directive I've seen on that is the hunter would not be cited because of their neighbor's bait pile unless that hunter was in on the baiting..
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Post by jjas on Jun 6, 2019 18:21:08 GMT -5
What our resident CO says in Ask the CO Forum... Like I said earlier....It really isn't worth the potential trouble IMO.
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Post by firstwd on Jun 6, 2019 18:45:19 GMT -5
I like the somewhat middle ground Maine uses. Nothing can be placed out for wildlife consumption between somewhere along the dates of August 1 and February 1. Basically from a month or so before season starts to a couple weeks after season closes. It goes for everybody everywhere and not just hunters.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 6, 2019 19:10:09 GMT -5
I like the somewhat middle ground Maine uses. Nothing can be placed out for wildlife consumption between somewhere along the dates of August 1 and February 1. Basically from a month or so before season starts to a couple weeks after season closes. It goes for everybody everywhere and not just hunters. How do they regulate food plots in that time period? Or is food plots basically KING in that time frame?
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Post by esshup on Jun 7, 2019 9:30:01 GMT -5
How does the CO (and the landowner or leasee for that matter) know for sure if the soil is "affected" without doing a test to see if any of those minerals leached out to the soil? Should a person remove a 6" layer of soil around the mineral site? 12"? 36"? I'm not talking wide, I'm also talking depth.
Even if the soil is removed, the deer still could come back expecting to find it there, so would that count as having the deer movement affected by the mineral and be illegal?
That's why I'd love to see it clarified.
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Post by span870 on Jun 8, 2019 7:45:55 GMT -5
If you want to dance in that grey area, sure I guess it needs to be changed. Real easy, go get yourself a rubber feed pail from rural King, some up to 50 gallon and place your mineral in that. Within the allowed time frame, remove said pail. No effected soil. C.O.'s for the most part ain't dumb. They know what's going on. You hunting over a 2 foot by 2 foot by 3 foot deep hole that shows a high level of minerals...well you know. As far as the whole neighbor baiting, they know that too. Well I didn't know. Okay you have 50 acres and you are hunting the trail that goes right to the feed 2 foot off the property line...again you know. Will say be very careful what you wish for. Pa is very specific on this. Your neighbor baits, they'll shut the area down to hunting for 30 days and yes they have the ability to shut hunting down on your property if it falls into the area.
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Post by jjas on Jun 8, 2019 10:26:43 GMT -5
If you want to dance in that grey area, sure I guess it needs to be changed. Real easy, go get yourself a rubber feed pail from rural King, some up to 50 gallon and place your mineral in that. Within the allowed time frame, remove said pail. No effected soil. C.O.'s for the most part ain't dumb. They know what's going on. You hunting over a 2 foot by 2 foot by 3 foot deep hole that shows a high level of minerals...well you know. As far as the whole neighbor baiting, they know that too. Well I didn't know. Okay you have 50 acres and you are hunting the trail that goes right to the feed 2 foot off the property line...again you know. Will say be very careful what you wish for. Pa is very specific on this. Your neighbor baits, they'll shut the area down to hunting for 30 days and yes they have the ability to shut hunting down on your property if it falls into the area. The idea of keeping it out of the soil is the best solution I've heard to use minerals (and get your pics) without causing soil contamination issues that down the road could bite you on the a$$...
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Post by Russ Koon on Jun 8, 2019 12:06:57 GMT -5
I've become completely disgusted with the entire attempt at regulating baiting, including minerals.
It's obvious that the current regulations are easily broken with little chance of detection or conviction. Everything from "deer corn" to the latest fad wonder attractant in a bag is available at hardwares, Mega-Marts, and filling stations each fall, and is sold by the truckload to folks wishing to "observe" their local wildlife. Some of that is actually intended for that legal purpose, much is not, and neither we or the CO knows how much is used in which way.
Then there's the problem like I ran into this past year. I had hunted on the property of a good friend and former co-worker for years and had taken several deer just up the hill behind his house about a hundred fifty yards.There was a big old oak up there that almost always seemed to produce lots of acorns and was near a natural travel route between the nearest water and two bedding areas. This year when I was visiting and making sure I was still welcome, I noticed two does come down out of the woods and approach a small mound of whitish stuff on the ground about twenty yards from our chairs in his enclosed sun room. A few minutes later, three other does and a very pretty young buck came down as well and visited the same pile of food, as the first two does wandered away.
I mentioned the deer to my friend who has been completely blind for years, and he said "Oh yeah, the wife puts out that little plate of deer food to watch them."
Said no more about it to him. But I did revisit the regulations again that evening and lots of language that left interpretation up "my local CO" to determine whether the deer were influenced by the feeding to use the trails that they had been using on the ridge up past that big oak.
Maybe there is some change in wording that would clear up some of the confusion, and maybe some change in CO numbers might be upcoming that would make effective enforcement possible, ....but I doubt it.
While we have baiting regulations, we will have the numerous violators getting by with the violations, and some otherwise legal hunters unknowingly violating the vague and ambiguous laws as they may be interpreted by the local CO, and the neighboring anti or poacher who tosses the ears of corn over the fence onto the property near where the legal hunter's stand or blind is and then give the anonymous tip to the CO.
IMO, the thing that needs to be revisited is the overall net effect of the baiting regulations. Not the intended effect, or the hoped-for effect, but the REAL effect. I think they would be found to be a minor inconvenience to the baiters currently ignoring them, and something that could if legally allowed,be of some use to the hunter on the smaller properties many of us find ourselves using now, especially those of us who can't wear out our hunting boots walking the miles we used to. Should be more effective in adding to the doe harvest than bringing in big bucks, according to most reports I've read, so it would be a plus in game management, another plus in keeping older hunters in the field, and another in fairness to the frustrated legal hunters who have been getting the short end of the stick for so long.
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Post by firstwd on Jun 8, 2019 20:37:15 GMT -5
I like the somewhat middle ground Maine uses. Nothing can be placed out for wildlife consumption between somewhere along the dates of August 1 and February 1. Basically from a month or so before season starts to a couple weeks after season closes. It goes for everybody everywhere and not just hunters. How do they regulate food plots in that time period? Or is food plots basically KING in that time frame? Honestly, I don't even know if food plots are legal.
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Post by darinfry on Jun 9, 2019 17:10:16 GMT -5
Not to change the subject but I'd be curious if deer visit mineral sites much during the fall. I always assumed that deer are mainly attracted to it in the spring/summer when they are nursing young and growing antlers because that's when then need the extra nutrients
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Post by firstwd on Jun 9, 2019 18:21:57 GMT -5
I remember hearing the unofficial reason for a baiting law was to keep the playing field equal and not allow the person with the biggest checkbook to out feed the others. With the onslaught of food plots, including row crops outside normal farming practices, I believe that excuse has passed.
Let's just make it completely simple, don't allow any person to feed wildlife anywhere anytime or allow anyone to feed wildlife anywhere anytime.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 9, 2019 18:30:36 GMT -5
Good luck with that Idea....
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Post by whitetaildave24 on Jun 9, 2019 18:41:34 GMT -5
I remember hearing the unofficial reason for a baiting law was to keep the playing field equal and not allow the person with the biggest checkbook to out feed the others. With the onslaught of food plots, including row crops outside normal farming practices, I believe that excuse has passed. Let's just make it completely simple, don't allow any person to feed wildlife anywhere anytime or allow anyone to feed wildlife anywhere anytime. So I can’t plant fruit or nut bearing trees because the wildlife may eat some of it?
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 9, 2019 20:20:43 GMT -5
I remember hearing the unofficial reason for a baiting law was to keep the playing field equal and not allow the person with the biggest checkbook to out feed the others. With the onslaught of food plots, including row crops outside normal farming practices, I believe that excuse has passed. Let's just make it completely simple, don't allow any person to feed wildlife anywhere anytime or allow anyone to feed wildlife anywhere anytime. Oh yeah... I've read some other state's sites where baiting is allowed and landowner/hunters have baiting wars. The very same thing could apply to food plots. I vividly recall a TV commercial by the Drury brothers pushing a certain food plot seed. They said it wasn't a food plot, but a "killing plot" and "your neighboring deer hunters would be green with envy as you pull the deer off their ground onto yours". Yes, food plot wars do exist too.
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