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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 9, 2019 20:23:23 GMT -5
BTW - To head off "baiting wars" the DNR could institute a limit like maybe a 5 gallon bucket full? Of course that would be ignored by some anyway...
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Post by esshup on Jun 9, 2019 22:55:32 GMT -5
BTW - To head off "baiting wars" the DNR could institute a limit like maybe a 5 gallon bucket full? Of course that would be ignored by some anyway... Wisconsin has something like that. IIRC 2 gallons in a continuous 40 acres if owned by one person. 2 gallons max per property under that size. And only in certain areas, and only certain times of the year.
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Post by tynimiller on Jun 10, 2019 7:40:37 GMT -5
....and here we are somehow discussing bait more than minerals, dramatic difference IMO. However, that segways into my response below... Not to change the subject but I'd be curious if deer visit mineral sites much during the fall. I always assumed that deer are mainly attracted to it in the spring/summer when they are nursing young and growing antlers because that's when then need the extra nutrients Deer for the most part rarely have issues with nutritional deficiencies in the fall as they do in the spring time or early winter. Males are run down and attempting to recover from their frat boy like falls and even in spring begin to grow antlers again. Females are likewise in need of nutrients, especially those lactating and supporting fawns. Nature has a way of delivering minerals to critters, however true mineral supplementation are hit hard due to these deficiency or demanding times upon whitetails. However, a TON of the crap spread around and on shelves is anything but an attempt at true mineral supplementation. Trophy rock is a glorified salt block (over 93% or more is salt)....many others are nearly all salt and flavorings....very few even begin to have the proper recognized ratios between various minerals (more than just phosphorous to calcium). Those are merely baits, not minerals...but depending on ones goals and purpose they work great for their intended use. HOWEVER, that is partly why any mineral discussion transitions over to bait....because truly most are merely attractants or baits attempting to get deer to a location, not truly assist or supplement their nutritional desires and needs.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 10, 2019 10:27:02 GMT -5
It's also not illegal unless you wish to hunt around or over the source!
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Post by esshup on Jun 10, 2019 11:01:20 GMT -5
However, a TON of the crap spread around and on shelves is anything but an attempt at true mineral supplementation. Trophy rock is a glorified salt block (over 93% or more is salt)....many others are nearly all salt and flavorings....very few even begin to have the proper recognized ratios between various minerals (more than just phosphorous to calcium). Those are merely baits, not minerals...but depending on ones goals and purpose they work great for their intended use. So, for mineral needs that leads me to ask this: What mineral mix would be a good one for here in Indiana that wouldn't be a glorified salt block?
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Post by greghopper on Jun 10, 2019 15:56:36 GMT -5
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Post by jbird on Jun 10, 2019 16:29:47 GMT -5
Leaving enforcement of a law to the discretion of the enforcing officer is NOT the way a law should be written. We don't post a speed limit of "Don't go too fast"!
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Post by firstwd on Jun 10, 2019 17:25:03 GMT -5
Mineral discussions move toward bait discussions because the vast majority don't know the difference and our law doesn't distinguish.
How did wildlife survive all these years without human intervention?
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Post by greghopper on Jun 10, 2019 17:32:41 GMT -5
Leaving enforcement of a law to the discretion of the enforcing officer isNOT the way a law should be written. We don't post a speed limit of "Don't go too fast"! Every time someone is pulled over while driving a ticket may or not be written even if a offense has happened .... officer's choice! Guessing you never been given a FREE pass.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 10, 2019 17:38:41 GMT -5
Mineral discussions move toward bait discussions because the cast majority don't know the difference and our law doesn't distinguish. How did wildlife survive all these years without human intervention? It's only BAITING if you hunting..... otherwise it's just feeding wildlife be it minerals or food .... good or bad!
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Post by tynimiller on Jun 10, 2019 18:03:56 GMT -5
However, a TON of the crap spread around and on shelves is anything but an attempt at true mineral supplementation. Trophy rock is a glorified salt block (over 93% or more is salt)....many others are nearly all salt and flavorings....very few even begin to have the proper recognized ratios between various minerals (more than just phosphorous to calcium). Those are merely baits, not minerals...but depending on ones goals and purpose they work great for their intended use. So, for mineral needs that leads me to ask this: What mineral mix would be a good one for here in Indiana that wouldn't be a glorified salt block? I have a specific one IF I ran sites anymore I would use...but am not a fan of peddling brands like the gazillion of staffers and such do. Read as much as you possibly can from biologists and such, lot of papers out there exist... Anything with more than 50% salt throw that crap aside. Most of the best live under 40%. Also don't settle for just trace amounts of stuff...like Trophy Rocks claims of offering a gazillion different minerals....well shoot if I put one spec of sugar in your coffee I ain't gonna claim I sweetened your coffee any. Also research the different types of certain minerals...some are cheaper but less absorbable (lack of better term atm) to the body. I guarantee if you start merely reading tags and asking questions over half of the stuff on the market is a waste of even a dime.
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Post by jjas on Jun 10, 2019 18:25:45 GMT -5
firstwd
The more we meddle, the more issues it seems to cause.
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Post by jbird on Jun 11, 2019 10:53:21 GMT -5
Leaving enforcement of a law to the discretion of the enforcing officer isNOT the way a law should be written. We don't post a speed limit of "Don't go too fast"! Every time someone is pulled over while driving a ticket may or not be written even if a offense has happened .... officer's choice! Guessing you never been given a FREE pass. I have been given a free pass before....however if I am stopped for doing 60 in a 55...I at least have a clearly defined rule/law. I expect to get a ticket. The expectation is CLEARLY defined and I CHOSE to ignore it. If the officer chooses to just give me a warning - that is his call. However.... being ticketed for doing 55 simply because the officer thought I was going too fast in his estimation...based on his opinion alone is BS. They are to enforce the law....not enforce their OPINIONS! Here is the root of it for me. Laws only affect those that choose to abide by them. An unclear law - leaves too much up to interpretation....good and bad. Law abiding hunters should not have to hunt in fear of being slapped with a baiting charge simply based on some vague wording in the law. The guys who sit 30 yards from their pile of deer candy are still going to do it regardless of what the law reads.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 11, 2019 13:00:35 GMT -5
Never ever heard of someone being charged with baiting that wasn't guilty or part of the problem!
Guess there's always a first.... pretty sure a CO can tell who is playing the baiting game.
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Post by tynimiller on Jun 11, 2019 14:35:22 GMT -5
Again though, the crap of where one person is told merely stopping putting out mineral is okay.....yet another told no, you need to cover...or no you need to fence....or no you need to dig up affected soil...or just don't hunt around it....just don't hunt within harvestable distance of it...just don't hunt 400 yards from it...ALL of that crap would go away if they merely worded the regulation clearer by removing the soil part OR actually universally enforcing it amongst ALL ICOs.
I mean the fact that I know of one guy (whom many would recognize) in Indiana continues mineral use throughout the entire year but has been told is fine...and claims it is because he doesn't hunt that small area of his private property....LOL sorry, but if that isn't a sign of at MINIMUM the IDNR needing to strongly revisit enforcement and explanation to the ICOs in the state I don't know what is. However, like some have outlined above...the law should be clear, and not place an interpretation of the officer at the forefront of whether something is lawful or illegal.
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Post by firstwd on Jun 11, 2019 19:37:04 GMT -5
Bait/minerals alone work because not everybody is putting them out. It's the same for food plots.
It it was full inclusion or full exclusion, the playing field would again be equal and enforcement would be clear.
Personally, I think natural mast trees and browse will win out over anything commercially made. Especially if they come with great shelter and water. The property fertilizer is always a bonus.
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Post by tenring on Jun 12, 2019 8:14:45 GMT -5
Around the turn of the century, I decided to help out the deer on a cousins property by starting a mineral lick. Ask our local ICO [now retired] about the idea, told him where it was going to be and what was the purpose of this project. Purely for the health of does during the last part of pregnancy with a bag of "salt and pepper" and then with a bag of NaCl for the heat and humidity of late July and the first of August. Stated that absolutely no hunting in the area until the gun season opens. He said that sounded OK as they won't be using it that late anyway. When our new CO moved to within a little over a half mile from the spot, I told him about the lick and why it's there. His opinion was sounds like a good idea to him.
Had to put this years salt and pepper at the end of the lick this year as I was a bit late getting it out, and the local deer had already been tearing the spot up and it was a muddy mess.
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Post by tynimiller on Jun 12, 2019 8:49:43 GMT -5
Bait/minerals alone work because not everybody is putting them out. It's the same for food plots. It it was full inclusion or full exclusion, the playing field would again be equal and enforcement would be clear. Personally, I think natural mast trees and browse will win out over anything commercially made. Especially if they come with great shelter and water. The property fertilizer is always a bonus. 1,000% Granted some amazing 3 year olds will get shot over bait piles or food plots or places void of any security...but oh those smart old bucks and does even are still vastly more active during daylight on properties with what you described.
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Post by tynimiller on Jun 12, 2019 8:54:05 GMT -5
Around the turn of the century, I decided to help out the deer on a cousins property by starting a mineral lick. Ask our local ICO [now retired] about the idea, told him where it was going to be and what was the purpose of this project. Purely for the health of does during the last part of pregnancy with a bag of "salt and pepper" and then with a bag of NaCl for the heat and humidity of late July and the first of August. Stated that absolutely no hunting in the area until the gun season opens. He said that sounded OK as they won't be using it that late anyway. When our new CO moved to within a little over a half mile from the spot, I told him about the lick and why it's there. His opinion was sounds like a good idea to him. Had to put this years salt and pepper at the end of the lick this year as I was a bit late getting it out, and the local deer had already been tearing the spot up and it was a muddy mess. I say none of this in a negative light towards you, but this is just another example of why the IC code needs to be more specific. Zero affected soil is removed...zero distance from site is mentioned in the code...also use of the animal by the opinion of anyone is not stated as well. Just another prime example of where the actual code is meaningless, and the local CO is deciding on their own. New ICO comes through covering for that guy in gun season might find the lick and knock you hunting 200 yards away....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 9:16:49 GMT -5
A few years back a truck load of Ky's illegally hunted my brothers neighbors property. My stand was about 60 yards from the property line. At dark I went to the stand and later that morning I noticed a lick stick about 5 feet from the line in the other side. Was I legal or not???
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