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Post by medic22 on Apr 19, 2018 18:04:12 GMT -5
Ill try and keep this short.
We ate under contract on a house we like, sitting on 1.13 acres.
GIS and the owners disagree on the property line but it appears a neighbor has a pasture with an electric fence on the back .3 acres. I had them survey the property and it turns out he is trespassing over the line on not only my future property but 3 of the neighbors. One neighbor just found out her yard was much larger from the survey crew, as she was told by him 14 years ago that he bought that portion of the property.
Has anyone had to go to court over a property dispute? As it stands the current owners hold the responsibility of informing him and making sure he cleans up his trash. I'm not sure its worth signing anything if he is going to fight it.
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Post by Sasquatch on Apr 19, 2018 18:44:59 GMT -5
A modern survey( like, not a hundred years old or something )should determine the matter in court.Its unusual for modern surveys to be off by much. We had a guy like that in my home town telling all his neighbors he owns this and that. It didnt work. If he's stealing your land lean on your landowners to fix the issue.
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Post by firstwd on Apr 19, 2018 20:29:53 GMT -5
A modern survey( like, not a hundred years old or something )should determine the matter in court.Its unusual for modern surveys to be off by much. We had a guy like that in my home town telling all his neighbors he owns this and that. It didnt work. If he's stealing your land lean on your landowners to fix the issue. I'm not completely confident in "modern" surveys. The neighboring business had one done about 3 years ago and their pins and subsequent property line goes lenth ways through the middle of my driveway and one of my sheds. A she'd that was originally a chicken coop on what was the homestead portion of the original farm this area was split from. Something tells me the old fence line that is 2 feet behind the building is the most likely true line verses the owners selling off half their drive and building. I believe the pin that crew started with was in the ditch at the opposite corner instead of the middle of the intersection like the court maps show. If everything is shifted over to the center of the intersection, this line is all but dead on the fenceline. Pull the paper survey maps at the county recorder and see what they have. |
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Post by Sasquatch on Apr 19, 2018 21:04:32 GMT -5
A modern survey( like, not a hundred years old or something )should determine the matter in court.Its unusual for modern surveys to be off by much. We had a guy like that in my home town telling all his neighbors he owns this and that. It didnt work. If he's stealing your land lean on your landowners to fix the issue. I'm not completely confident in "modern" surveys. The neighboring business had one done about 3 years ago and their pins and subsequent property line goes lenth ways through the middle of my driveway and one of my sheds. A she'd that was originally a chicken coop on what was the homestead portion of the original farm this area was split from. Something tells me the old fence line that is 2 feet behind the building is the most likely true line verses the owners selling off half their drive and building. I believe the pin that crew started with was in the ditch at the opposite corner instead of the middle of the intersection like the court maps show. If everything is shifted over to the center of the intersection, this line is all but dead on the fenceline. Pull the paper survey maps at the county recorder and see what they have. Nothing's perfect, of course...what I meant primarily is that if the historical one was done with modern methods it's probably right. Often property lines that have been held sacred for years turn out to be way off, especially when the old deed said "30 feet from the stump and 100 feet past the fence" neither of which still exist. I tell people ALWAYS have a property surveyed before you buy it, because things can change and not always in your favor. And the latest survey usually wins. Regardless, the people he's buying from should get this resolved. I sure wouldn't buy it until it is. |
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Post by swindianapaul on Apr 19, 2018 22:08:25 GMT -5
Medic: First and foremost, GIS does not reflect a legal survey for property lines. It is a digitized approximation only. I deal with property line disputes almost on a daily basis with my work. The recorders office is the place to start. It is also the place a licensed survey will likely start in order to determine the closest known survey point to the property in question. In court, the survey will trump the GIS photography.
Paul
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Post by deadeer on Apr 19, 2018 23:33:21 GMT -5
I'm not completely confident in "modern" surveys. The neighboring business had one done about 3 years ago and their pins and subsequent property line goes lenth ways through the middle of my driveway and one of my sheds. A she'd that was originally a chicken coop on what was the homestead portion of the original farm this area was split from. Something tells me the old fence line that is 2 feet behind the building is the most likely true line verses the owners selling off half their drive and building. I believe the pin that crew started with was in the ditch at the opposite corner instead of the middle of the intersection like the court maps show. If everything is shifted over to the center of the intersection, this line is all but dead on the fenceline. Pull the paper survey maps at the county recorder and see what they have. Nothing's perfect, of course...what I meant primarily is that if the historical one was done with modern methods it's probably right. Often property lines that have been held sacred for years turn out to be way off, especially when the old deed said "30 feet from the stump and 100 feet past the fence" neither of which still exist. I tell people ALWAYS have a property surveyed before you buy it, because things can change and not always in your favor. And the latest survey usually wins. Regardless, the people he's buying from should get this resolved. I sure wouldn't buy it until it is. When I bought my old farm house, the deed shows the measurements are in "rods" still. Lol |
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Post by duff on Apr 20, 2018 4:05:52 GMT -5
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Apr 20, 2018 5:20:08 GMT -5
I doubt the current land/house owner can even sell you the property until the dispute is settled. Our neighbor had his horse pasture fence several feet over the property line onto ours. The bank required him to reposition the fence properly before he could sell it.
Try finding the pins with a metal detector. It take awhile to find them, but it will worth it in the end if its in your favor.
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Post by freedomhunter on Apr 20, 2018 6:24:23 GMT -5
land surveyors are quasi-judicial officials and can really only offer a professional opinion. And is often sadly the case, our dumb backsides can't agree with each other which makes our professional look bad. I've done the court thing and a lot of times it goes to an ALJ court (which DNR uses for timber disputes). The judge will look at the evidence (surveys) and hear opinions and then usually make a completely arbitrary decision that could make absolutely no sense, depending on how he feels that day. So no, I wouldn't got to court.
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Post by medic22 on Apr 20, 2018 7:17:44 GMT -5
Just to clarify, a new survey was completed yesterday that supports what I was finding on GIS and deeds.
I actually don't even really care about that 0.3 acres, but I'm not paying property tax on land I can't use. At least 14 years he has been using that land and telling neighbors he owned it.
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Post by jjas on Apr 20, 2018 7:38:13 GMT -5
Just to clarify, a new survey was completed yesterday that supports what I was finding on GIS and deeds. I actually don't even really care about that 0.3 acres, but I'm not paying property tax on land I can't use. At least 14 years he has been using that land and telling neighbors he owned it. As has been stated, I wouldn't purchase anything until this issue was resolved to my satisfaction. Unfortunately, that may include the courts system. |
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Post by squirrelhunter on Apr 20, 2018 10:24:34 GMT -5
I haven't had to go to court yet but I may have to at some point because there's a 9 foot overlap of our and our neighbor's property lines. Back when I was young 1 of our other neighbors was trying to take land,even a section of county road and went to court 2 or 3 times and even won the county road case. Back to our problem,when mom and dad bought this place from our neighbor's (Bill's parents) they wanted to keep the 7 acres of farmland and just sold us the 3 remaining acres. We've always considered the fence corner post as the property line. Right before Bill died he said he'd had his property surveyed and according to our deed we owned a couple feet passed the corner post and wanted to know if I'd try to take it from him,I said of course not. Well the lady he left his house to is 1 that tries to claim her land is farther than it is so I had OUR place surveyed. Sure enough there's an overlap. They started on her place measuring from the East and our place measuring from the West when they did the deeds back in 1950. Her deed shows she owns to the corner post but our deed shows we own to the middle of her lane which is 9 feet passed the corner post so we both own that strip and are paying taxes on it. Now personally I don't care about it because I've always considered the post as the line but I'm afraid if SHE finds out about the overlap that she won't like it and will want to resolve it even though I'm not worried about it. Time will tell.
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Post by medic22 on Apr 20, 2018 11:08:23 GMT -5
Update: the alleged trespassing neighbor refused to allow the surveyors onto the property. He gave them a copy of a deed saying he owns that land. They are sorting through it now but it appears that the legal markers are off therefore it is not his land. I'm sure he will fight it and I can't say I blame him.
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Post by esshup on Apr 20, 2018 14:37:28 GMT -5
Loosing 26 1/2% of the land that you might own would not sit right with me if the proposed purchase price didn't drop accordingly.
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Post by freedomhunter on Apr 20, 2018 15:25:39 GMT -5
Squirrelhunter, legally a title search of the original owner of the overlap area (before it was split) will determine ownership. And yes, surveyors are not allowed right of trespass in indiana so it becomes a Sheriff or CO responsibility or court order just to do a dispute job.
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Post by firstwd on Apr 20, 2018 15:42:50 GMT -5
Squirrelhunter, legally a title search of the original owner of the overlap area (before it was split) will determine ownership. And yes, surveyors are not allowed right of trespass in indiana so it becomes a Sheriff or CO responsibility or court order just to do a dispute job. Yeah.... Just ask the guys doing the survey when the Rex Pipeline came through. An older woman came home from Florida where she had spent several weeks with her daughter to find a survey crew on her farm. When she questioned them, they produced a written permission form with her name signed to it. Dated while she was out of state, and not her signature. This was a Friday afternoon of a long holiday weekend and the survey crew got to stay in jail until the following Tuesday when the courts were open again. |
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Post by jimstc on Apr 20, 2018 17:27:55 GMT -5
There is a legal concept called Adverse Possession. The time that it takes in KY (where I went to Law School a long time ago) to own land via this route is/was twenty years. Don't know about IN law. Quoting: "Adverse possession is a doctrine under which a person in possession of land owned by someone else may acquire valid title to it, so long as certain common law requirements are met, and the adverse possessor is in possession for a sufficient period of time, as defined by a statute of limitations." I'd recommend some research along this line.... Edit to add: www.justia.com/real-estate/docs/adverse-possession.html |
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Post by freedomhunter on Apr 20, 2018 18:00:09 GMT -5
There is a legal concept called Adverse Possession. The time that it takes in KY (where I went to Law School a long time ago) to own land via this route is/was twenty years. Don't know about IN law. Quoting: "Adverse possession is a doctrine under which a person in possession of land owned by someone else may acquire valid title to it, so long as certain common law requirements are met, and the adverse possessor is in possession for a sufficient period of time, as defined by a statute of limitations." I'd recommend some research along this line.... Edit to add: www.justia.com/real-estate/docs/adverse-possession.htmlIndiana is down to 15 years I think. But you need to prove several elements including payment of taxes. |
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Post by jimstc on Apr 20, 2018 18:11:23 GMT -5
There is a legal concept called Adverse Possession. The time that it takes in KY (where I went to Law School a long time ago) to own land via this route is/was twenty years. Don't know about IN law. Quoting: "Adverse possession is a doctrine under which a person in possession of land owned by someone else may acquire valid title to it, so long as certain common law requirements are met, and the adverse possessor is in possession for a sufficient period of time, as defined by a statute of limitations." I'd recommend some research along this line.... Edit to add: www.justia.com/real-estate/docs/adverse-possession.htmlIndiana is down to 15 years I think. But you need to prove several elements including payment of taxes. Thanks for the clarification! Appreciate the insight |
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Post by bartiks on Apr 20, 2018 19:15:52 GMT -5
Interesting about the adverse possession, me and dad may want to look into our property being surveyed. We've let a farmer use our land for around 10 years. He understands that it is our property under the pretense he lets us hunt some land he has that adjoins ours.
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