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Post by cambygsp on Aug 15, 2005 5:02:34 GMT -5
www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/sports/12382391.htmPosted on Sun, Aug. 14, 2005 Fenced-in hunting ban applauded Phil Bloom Noted outdoor author Jim Posewitz has fought high-fenced shooting preserves in Montana for years, so you can imagine his reaction to the decision this week to ban the practice in Indiana. “Hooray,” he said. “Good for you guys.” Kyle Hupfer, director of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources, announced Thursday that state-issued game breeder permits may grant private ownership of white-tailed deer but nothing in state law gives a game breeder the right to allow those animals to be killed inside fenced enclosures. Furthermore, Hupfer slammed the door on shooting of exotic species (red deer, zebra, wild boar and elk) by signing an emergency order that makes that activity illegal, too. The announcement stunned a lot of people – the conservationists and sporting groups that oppose high-fenced shooting preserves as well as the well-financed preserve owners. Hupfer may be a political appointee but he’s nobody’s lapdog, and anyone thinking a call to Gov. Mitch Daniels will easily undo what’s been done best think again. By sheer coincidence, Daniels was at The Journal Gazette on Thursday to meet with the newspaper’s editorial board. As he was leaving, he was curious about what the board thought of Hupfer’s actions. He praised Hupfer for bringing him up to speed on the traditions and ethics of fair-chase hunting. Acknowledging that members of the deer farm industry have a lot invested in their operations, Daniels indicated the shooting of captive deer is not something Indiana needs. “Some people are upset, but so be it,” Daniels said. Through public forums and e-mail comments, Hupfer heard plenty of reasons for and against high-fenced shooting preserves but one resonated. “The strongest argument that I feel is we have an obligation to protect Indiana wildlife, and along with that our hunting heritage,” he said. “When you hear about pen-raised deer and the hunting of deer that cannot escape, it eliminates fair chase and starts providing a lot of potential ammunition for the complete abolition of hunting. “That’s not something worth risking. The pursuit through fair chase of whitetail deer in Indiana is not only an important tradition but also has a significant positive impact on the state economically.” Hupfer cited the difficulty faced by other states where high-fenced preserves already are entrenched. “This is something that is not desirable,” he said. “This provides us a unique opportunity to be in a different position than a lot of states in stopping the practice before it gets out of hand.” In Montana where Posewitz lives, it took a ballot initiative to outlaw high-fenced hunting. Constant litigation by preserve owners to overturn the ban has created a new battlefront. The fight may not be over here either, but Posewitz likes the way Hupfer tackled the issue. “Indiana is really a shining star at the moment for having taken that step,” he said. “It’s difficult to exaggerate the importance of what the man has done. I’m telling you, that’s very, very significant.”
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 15, 2005 7:04:26 GMT -5
Having both the Governor as well as the Director of the DNR publicly opposed to deer pimpimg in our state is great news because it puts the pimps on notice , "You're not welcome here , move on ."
The advantage that I think that we have over the other states who suffer from them is that we managed to catch them early enough to get rid of them without causing undue economic loss to the farming industry . That was to be their "lever" , but they never got entrenched far enough to eclipse the revenue that hunting provides to the state . In the end it's all about money , and we bring way more of it in than they do .
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 15, 2005 7:18:05 GMT -5
Ethics and moral issues aside.........
This move is more of a preventive measure, if you ask me.
Take a look at how CWD has affected the deer herd and deer hunting in the states that have been infected.......it's something that Indiana don't have the funds to deal with.
On another note, the exotic issue is just as bad. Shipping in exotic animals is also a HUGE risk to the state. If we allow this practice, it will be just a matter of time before their is an escape....you can erect the tallest fence you want.....but high winds tend to knock down trees and how do you prevent them from falling on the fence?
The risk involved with these high fence killing pens is far too great.....regardless of what benefit the owners of such claim they provide.
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 15, 2005 9:02:21 GMT -5
There have already been escapes , shoot them on sight if you ever see them , they aren't game animals here . Hmmm ... I wonder what zebra stew tastes like ? LOL ;D
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Post by jackc99 on Aug 15, 2005 10:24:18 GMT -5
Camby - reread the press release from Hupfer. He never mentions CWD. He does mention several times the ethics and moral issues that prompted this decision. I was stunned sitting there with jb, dna, dox and all the others who have fought so long against this. Good thing we got us a lawyer down there.
Also notice that the "hunting" of exotics has ended but not the "farming". That also includes the "farming" of whitetails. That practice is allowed under a bill passed in the last session of the legislature. So your concern about disease coming in from out of state via exotics (elk) is a valid point and one sortsmen will have to monitor. Fortunately sportsmen have kept the importation of whitetails out of Indiana.
Jack
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 15, 2005 12:08:36 GMT -5
Camby - reread the press release from Hupfer. He never mentions CWD. He does mention several times the ethics and moral issues that prompted this decision. I was stunned sitting there with jb, dna, dox and all the others who have fought so long against this. Good thing we got us a lawyer down there. Also notice that the "hunting" of exotics has ended but not the "farming". That also includes the "farming" of whitetails. That practice is allowed under a bill passed in the last session of the legislature. So your concern about disease coming in from out of state via exotics (elk) is a valid point and one sortsmen will have to monitor. Fortunately sportsmen have kept the importation of whitetails out of Indiana. Jack Dont think that this didn't play a BIG part in the decision. “That’s not something worth risking. The pursuit through fair chase of whitetail deer in Indiana is not only an important tradition but also has a significant positive impact on the state economically.”In my input, both at the meeting at Sugar Ridge, and my email to the IDNR and Kyle personally I emphasized that deer hunting in Indiana annually generated $352,716,685 (International Association of Fish and Wildlife 2001 report) . I then gave him the dollar numbers from Wisconsin that they have paid out and lost to CWD infestation.. Yep... "bucks" (the green kind) paid an important part in this decision.. |
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 15, 2005 12:33:57 GMT -5
CWD will definitely be the next target for review with regard to these places . I don't see any way that DNR can allow them to import fresh stock or ship their "product" to other states without risk of contracting and/or spreading the disease here and elsewhere . Maybe the next emergency order should be that they can't move whitetails in or out of the state . I think that I could support that ...  |
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Post by jackc99 on Aug 15, 2005 13:01:00 GMT -5
kevin1 - currently they (deer farmers) cannot ship whitetails into the state but they can ship out of the state. Question is how many shipments go from Michigan through Indiana to other states?
Jack
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 15, 2005 14:00:21 GMT -5
kevin1 - currently they (deer farmers) cannot ship whitetails into the state but they can ship out of the state. Question is how many shipments go from Michigan through Indiana to other states? Jack Might just be time to curtail that practice too , Jack . Deer born in Michigan have no business crossing the Indiana line unless they walk across it under their own power . We have enough to worry about with free range deer bringing in CWD , no sense importing it or allowing other states to potentialy export it to us . All it would take would be one deer that has it to get into a wreck and escape . If we can ban the importation of Canadian beef there's no reason why we can't keep other states from dumping their trash here too . |
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Post by jkd on Aug 15, 2005 14:06:45 GMT -5
Hopefully the legislators will see the writing on the wall and pass on bringing this issue up again in the 2006 session...
KD
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 15, 2005 15:55:15 GMT -5
Hopefully the legislators will see the writing on the wall and pass on bringing this issue up again in the 2006 session... KD Hopefully the legislators will pass a b ill banning it altogether.. |
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Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 16:27:06 GMT -5
Deer farmers have evolved to the point where they know they won't ever get to import again. They don't need to. They just use out of artificial insemination instead. Semen is thought to carry CWD and could be a risk, yet there is no alarm over it at this point. Not many legislaturors will be in favor of doing away with an industry, even though it is a small one. Good luck trying.
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 15, 2005 17:44:52 GMT -5
Not many legislaturors will be in favor of doing away with an industry, even though it is a small one. Good luck trying. They all but destroyed the alcoholic beverage industry in the early part of the 20th century simply because enough people stood up and said that they didn't want to have it around . What makes you think that if they would ban a HUGE industry that the majority of the citizenry patronized that they wouldn't squash a tiny industry that is routinely despised , Multi? Precedent has been set more than once , it can happen again . |
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Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 18:26:55 GMT -5
For one thing, a majority of the citizenry hasn't spoken against it. 2nd, no legislator with a deer farm in his district will support shutting down these facilities and the money they bring to his or her district. doing away with canned hunting is grat. Be happy and hope it holds long enough to take effect.
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Post by 911 on Aug 15, 2005 20:51:20 GMT -5
How much money really comes into the community where these deer farms are located ?? Most have their own lodging and prepare meals for their clients. And most of the processing and taxidermy is done by the preserve owner correct?? So other than maybe a gas station i think the only one's profiting are the owners themselves.
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 15, 2005 21:01:17 GMT -5
911,
Re-read the posts..........Deer Farming and Deer Pimping are two different things. There are lots of deer "farmers" I thing about 300 or so.....there were only about 12 outfits running as deer pimps.
Deer Farming is still LEGAL and they just got favorable legislation through this past session.....the sporting groups supported, or at least didnt opose the legislation as it was passed. There is very strict wording in that legislation that says that "farming" is O.K. but they can't sell shooting opportunities.
There is "some" market for them....antlers, urine, and meat....but there is also doubt that the market will be very profitable. We ALL know they NEEDED the shooting pens to make the dollar they were looking for. Because they will no longer be able to re-supply the shooting pens with inventory, you can expect some of these deer farms to fold.
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Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 21:07:48 GMT -5
or expand, so that they can farm more head, and thus make more money on hides, urine, antlers, meat, etc. They can ship outside the state, but not into the state. There are still plenty of buyers out there.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 15, 2005 21:08:07 GMT -5
How much money really comes into the community where these deer farms are located ?? Most have their own lodging and prepare meals for their clients. And most of the processing and taxidermy is done by the preserve owner correct?? So other than maybe a gas station i think the only one's profiting are the owners themselves. Maybe the deer feed store... |
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 15, 2005 21:17:13 GMT -5
or expand, so that they can farm more head, and thus make more money on hides, urine, antlers, meat, etc. They can ship outside the state, but not into the state. There are still plenty of buyers out there. Multi.... I had a pretty good conversation with a deer "farmer" down at St. Thomas Moore Church (Mooresville, IN)during their Applefest last fall. He had a booth set up and was selling sausage and such. He said it was very difficult to make ends meet by selling meat. His EXACT words was that it's really only the PRIME cuts that are marketable....the chops. No one wants to buy the roast type cuts...and even though they can fetch up to $20.00 a pound for the prime cuts....a deer will only yeild so much in prime cuts. He words were that they needed the added market (shooting pens) to really make it work. This fella was strictly a "farmer" and didnt allow or sell shooting on his place. |
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