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Post by dusty20 on Oct 19, 2016 13:15:46 GMT -5
Bought a house last year with a wood burner. We had to reline the chimney after getting an inspection but other than that it was good to go. We used it a decent amount last year but it is not our primary source of heat as we do have a furnace. I would like to get to a point that the furnace is secondary and rarely used.
The previous owners had it tucked back into a corner of the house in what would have been the original third of the house. the room that the wood burner was in was easily 95°+. The living room was on the other side of the old exterior wall and wouldn't even feel warm so we got next to no radiant heat out of the burner. It did have a blower with heat box around it that was plumbed into the HVAC directly below in the crawl space. This was enough that I could keep the living room at roughly 70° if I stayed on top of the burner and tried to keep the flue temps right around 500°. I thought this was a bit depressing because I had hoped that I could keep the house at 70°+ with not much work or not over firing the burner. I checked the air temp coming out of the burner and it was rather toasty! The problem is that the air cools down so much being pumped from one side of the house all the way to the other. Here in the next week or so I am going to install a new chimney in our living room so that I can centralize the heat source. I think this will really help out.
The wood burner is pretty old and just has the two slide air inlets on the front. It is a big fire box and is a rectangle with the air flowing lengthwise with the rectangle from inlet to flue. There is no gasket on the door and it looks like there never was. I have a magnetic speedo type gauge thermometer 18" from the woodburner on the stovepipe.
As a semi newby I need some tips: How should my fire start, sustain and trail off - When I start a fire I have to open everything up to get the air moving to get good coals and a good burn. Once I do this the fire climbs quickly and the flue temp skyrockets 700-800° in a couple minutes. At this point I close down the air inlets to a sliver and it sustains around 500° flue temp for a while then slowly falls and I keep opening up the air inlets until its time to start again. Is this normal for you to have to adjust the air inlet once every 45 minutes or less to keep the flue temp up?
What is a safe stovepipe temp? The gauge I have shows about 500° being about the top, 600° gets me into the red. Is my goal to keep my stovepipe temp around 400-500° or is there something else that I should be monitoring? Obviously room temperature is going to be the important thing but In the past I had to keep the stove pipe right at the 500° mark to keep my house anywhere near 70°.
Should my stove have a gasket on it? Is this thing just really old and not designed to maintain a good fire without lots of adjustments? Best guess is this things from the 40's or 50's maybe?
I have a flue damper but keep that wide open to avoid getting smoke back fed. I have so far only adjusted the air inlet to adjust fire temp.
Anything you guys can give me hints on that you can pickup that I'm doing wrong based on my short novel here???
I have tried to read as much as I could on best practices for fires, how to build the best fires, how to control fires the best way but most of the information out there is so vague it really doesn't help much.
Thanks in advance!
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Post by esshup on Oct 19, 2016 14:27:18 GMT -5
I probably won't be much help but here is what I think I learned over the years. I have the same problem as you, wood burner isn't central in the house and the rooms away from it are cold - could be 20°F colder than the living room where the insert is.
If you are going to use the central heat system on "fan" only to distribute heat from the wood burner, the ducts have to be insulated or you will lose too much heat.
If you can move air from room to room inside the house, that would help. I have seen small fans that mount in the corner of a door frame, but never went that route.
Oak has to be seasoned 2 years. Don't burn green wood. Make sure the chimney is clean - no creosote. Keeping the wood covered but open on the sides and up off the ground helps keep it dry.
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Post by dusty20 on Oct 19, 2016 14:53:25 GMT -5
I probably won't be much help but here is what I think I learned over the years. I have the same problem as you, wood burner isn't central in the house and the rooms away from it are cold - could be 20°F colder than the living room where the insert is. If you are going to use the central heat system on "fan" only to distribute heat from the wood burner, the ducts have to be insulated or you will lose too much heat. If you can move air from room to room inside the house, that would help. I have seen small fans that mount in the corner of a door frame, but never went that route. Oak has to be seasoned 2 years. Don't burn green wood. Make sure the chimney is clean - no creosote. Keeping the wood covered but open on the sides and up off the ground helps keep it dry. I wonder if I am adding to my problem by keeping my heat system on fan. I do that all year around. We have a lot of ceiling fans that come winter I will switch to the reverse direction to try to keep air moving. I will point out that my crawl space is semi conditioned. it is still a nasty tight dirt floor crawl space but it is sealed for the most part and has an air duct or two that feed the crawl space.
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Post by duff on Oct 19, 2016 17:40:03 GMT -5
I would close off the duct outlets going to crawl space unless needed for other purposes. Seems a huge heat loss. Maybe some of our hvac savy guys know better than me.
If you can move the stove do it. My stove is in basement so down stairs and rooms above are awesome warm. Only ros that stay cool are kids bedrooms. They don't mind.
I would insulate the ductwork if it isn't yet. Maybe see if there is a better style of heat exchanger to use so it absorbs heat to buffer the times you can't stoke the fire.
My stove keeps my house warm. Furnace is set to kick on at 65 or 68 and rarely turns on.
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Post by dusty20 on Oct 20, 2016 12:52:21 GMT -5
I would be curious on what the hvac guys or crawl space guys say. From what I understand if you have a vented crawl space then obviously seal everything but if it is not vented you must have it conditioned to some extent.
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Post by dusty20 on Oct 21, 2016 9:21:17 GMT -5
Nobody else here has a wood burner?! Don't let me down.
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Post by steiny on Oct 21, 2016 9:22:52 GMT -5
I like the simple, older steel or cast iron wood stoves like you describe. They seem to draft a whole lot better than modern stuff with catalytic baffles, etc. You do need to have a decent door gasket and vents that close down decently or your fire will get too much air and eat wood like it's going out of style. A damper in the flue also helps slow down the hot air getting out the chimney.
Routinely clean out the ashes, and maintain a good supply of kindling such as 2x4 scraps, etc. for getting fires going. Those little fire starter deals that look like compressed sawdust and wax are handy too, most farm stores carry them. When lighting a fire, open everything up, full draft, even crack the door open if necessary and get your kindling rip roaring, then add some smaller pieces of good dry wood to build the fire and coals. Once the logs are going good, you can start dampering things down. Through trial and error, you will find the "sweet spot" of where to set vents and damper to get the most heat while not allowing fire to go out, or eat too much wood. Once things are going good, it's just a matter of periodically adding logs to maintain the fire.
It's also a very good idea to have a wall of real masonry; brick, stone, etc. behind your woodstove, and have the stove setting on concrete or masonry. This is both for fire prevention / safety, and the masonry gets warm and holds heat in the room.
I never checked my stove pipe temps, just know that the single wall black pipe inside the house is hotter than heck. If you have installed the unit per manufacturers instructions, with adequate clearances, etc. and pipe is all in good condition and clean, you shouldn't have any trouble. The triple wall stainless chimney is some pretty amazing stuff. I've been on my roof while a fire is going and could actually touch the outside surface of this pipe with my bare hand.
A centrally located wood stove in an open concept home would be best but this is not always possible or practical. Ours is on one end of the house which isn't ideal, but we run ceiling fans and a floor fan to bush the heat to other areas somewhat. It is very advantageous to have a stove near an outside wall and door when it comes time to bring in wood, haul ashes out, etc. Also not tracking the mess through the house.
Check with your insurance man if you have install questions, they generally have some good material. Hope you never need it, but it's also good policy to keep a couple fire extinguishers in the house.
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Post by drs on Oct 21, 2016 9:54:50 GMT -5
Nobody else here has a wood burner?! Don't let me down. Nope, too dirty. I'd rather buy a Generac 200 Amps whole house generator. I've got total electric heating & cooling (2-heat pumps). Was at one time looking into a wood burner but remembered that one has to provide wood for it, and that would mean a good chain saw and an unlimited source of trees. After all the work and expense I see no actual savings for several years, down the road. Don't like to deal with all the wood ashes and smoke it would produce.
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Post by steiny on Oct 21, 2016 10:14:44 GMT -5
Hard to beat the warmth and comfort of a good wood fire. Also like hearing the crackle an the smell of wood smoke when outdoors. We live rural and pretty much have an unlimited supply of firewood available, also enjoy getting out and cutting & splitting some firewood. I don't want to be a slave to the wood stove and have that as an only source of heat, and you need conventional heating if you ever leave for an extended period.
We keep it going pretty steady during cold weather. Also have one in the barn which is pretty nice.
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Post by throbak on Oct 21, 2016 10:38:18 GMT -5
I bought a soapstone stove last year to replace the coventual iron stove I've heated with wood for50 years This soapstone stove is by far the best I've ever used I have a stainless liner in a stone chimney in a Rock House obviously no worries back up is Geo never comes on toll January I'm 3 yrs up on Wood NOTHIN BUT Osage ,Ash, Hickory or Oak and a little elm for now I'm cutting 2019s wood don't waste your time on other wood not worth it That's my advice And don't forget stay at least a year ahead on fuel
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Post by welder on Oct 21, 2016 21:23:31 GMT -5
I have a Hardy outside boiler, it does ok with my house,(my house was built in 1847,2 story farm house), saves me tons of money on LP, but WOW! It eats wood!!!
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Post by nfalls116 on Oct 21, 2016 22:49:37 GMT -5
I have a couple but I've never used them as a primary he a r source so I couldn't tell you what your problem is for sure but, it sounds like you are wasting fuel to me. Maybe use that flue damper
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Post by duff on Oct 22, 2016 4:06:17 GMT -5
I have a Hardy outside boiler, it does ok with my house,(my house was built in 1847,2 story farm house), saves me tons of money on LP, but WOW! It eats wood!!! I know two guys very well that heated with an outdoor boiler and they were slaves to their boilers. One actually sold his house due to it. Then others tell me they are very efficient but I never got to see the piles of wood they used either.
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Post by firstwd on Oct 22, 2016 6:33:20 GMT -5
I use an indoor "add-on" wood burning furnace that I plumbed it's own duct work into the house. I burn 7 to 8 cord of wood a year (21 to 24 Rick for those who know wood in that term), some years less. I have a glass furnace that hasn't turned on since the first year it was installed. It's messy and a lot of work,but I have a woods full of ash trees that are dying faster than I can burn them. Currently myself and my neighbor, both wood heat exclusively, have gone 4 years and still can't keep up with the trees.
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Post by welder on Oct 22, 2016 6:36:01 GMT -5
I have a Hardy outside boiler, it does ok with my house,(my house was built in 1847,2 story farm house), saves me tons of money on LP, but WOW! It eats wood!!! I know two guys very well that heated with an outdoor boiler and they were slaves to their boilers. One actually sold his house due to it. Then others tell me they are very efficient but I never got to see the piles of wood they used either. Unfortunately,I haven't figured out how to post pictures or I would show you my wood pile. I burned 15 gallons of chainsaw gas on my worst year! For the people who don't know,THAT'S A LOT OF CUTTING! Lol
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Post by throbak on Oct 22, 2016 7:44:35 GMT -5
Oh And My soapstone stove is unbelievably easy on wood too
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Post by dusty20 on Oct 22, 2016 8:07:20 GMT -5
I don't know that I'm necessarily wasting wood by any means. I have a wood box that holds one days worth of wood it's about a foot deep and maybe 3' wide 3' tall. I essentially grab three arm loads of wood to last me the day. Maybe that is a lot of wood for some people but I don't know.
I know that there are burners that are much more efficient than mine.
The biggest thing I was curious of is do people put as much of an emphasis on flue temp as i have or do you just get a fire going and get it hot And let it go.
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Post by dusty20 on Oct 22, 2016 8:07:52 GMT -5
Oh And My soapstone stove is unbelievably easy on wood too I've heard that those things are really nice. They look good too.
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Post by dusty20 on Oct 22, 2016 8:09:05 GMT -5
I know two guys very well that heated with an outdoor boiler and they were slaves to their boilers. One actually sold his house due to it. Then others tell me they are very efficient but I never got to see the piles of wood they used either. Unfortunately,I haven't figured out how to post pictures or I would show you my wood pile. I burned 15 gallons of chainsaw gas on my worst year! For the people who don't know,THAT'S A LOT OF CUTTING! Lol I always thought that an outdoor boiler would be nice. Didn't know that they were that bad on wood.
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Post by esshup on Oct 22, 2016 9:07:54 GMT -5
I think in amount of heat actually brought to the house vs. wood burned, from worst to best: Fireplace Outside wood boiler Fireplace insert Free standing inside wood stove
Bro-in-law has a free standing inside wood stove in the basement and his house is warmer than mine on less wood burned per winter. I have a fireplace insert. - Quadrafire 5100 I believe. Bay window design, not a flat front...
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