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Post by span870 on Oct 26, 2015 13:29:40 GMT -5
Been doing some studies and I'm coming up with some interesting facts. Wondering if you guys could help me out here to answer some questions.
Really easy.
Two deer come in, adult doe and yearling fawn. Both female. Which doe do you shoot and why?
Please don't turn this into anymore than answering and not a debate on trophy hunting or lack of numbers of deer. If neither don't answer.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 26, 2015 13:41:01 GMT -5
All depends if your shooting to manage or eat...IMO
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Post by BOBinIN on Oct 26, 2015 13:45:34 GMT -5
Shoot the fawn. I'm too old to drag heavy deer to the truck. Besides, the young ones are the best "eaters" IMHO.
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Post by sakorifle on Oct 26, 2015 13:47:12 GMT -5
greetings
Depends on age of fawn, from november until christmas, i shoot kids first rather than leave them to fend for themselves and starve over winter, and i take the doe if possible which it usually is as she hangs back waiting for them.
Then after that i make a decision on every shot.
regards
billy
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Post by span870 on Oct 26, 2015 13:48:48 GMT -5
All depends if your shooting to manage or eat...IMO Explain the difference. I guess the question should have had added to manage for more deer. |
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Post by greghopper on Oct 26, 2015 14:04:05 GMT -5
The older deer will have more eatable meat vs a young fawn....
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Post by duff on Oct 26, 2015 14:31:20 GMT -5
Neither...don't want to gut and drag them out.
But if have to choose and the intent is to also choose best for herd growth I'd shoot the older doe. Based on averages she had less productivity left. The fawn would have the largest potential in the future.
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Post by laughery11 on Oct 26, 2015 14:32:02 GMT -5
The older deer will have more eatable meat vs a young fawn....  . If I'm going to shoot an antlerless deer it's going to be an adult doe. Fawns aren't worth the work to me. Most biologists will tell you if a fawn has lost its spots it has a fairly good chance to make it through a mild winter on its own. Although, if you are trying to grow the herd or keep it same size take the fawn. The doe has a much better chance of making it through a harsh winter. |
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Post by monkeyarms13 on Oct 26, 2015 14:50:07 GMT -5
Depends on which one gives me the better shot  |
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Post by trapperdave on Oct 26, 2015 14:52:29 GMT -5
First one that offered a good shot. All equal....the fattest one
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Post by trapperdave on Oct 26, 2015 14:53:57 GMT -5
Fawns are self sufficient at like eight weeks...long before season
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Post by dbd870 on Oct 26, 2015 14:56:10 GMT -5
Doe; yearling is old enough to make it.
Unless you are in KY several years back and they are 225yds away. Then you think the yearling is a doe and the doe inside the woods line is a buck chasing her and you shoot the "doe" and then shoot the real doe once it comes out into the field after you killed the button that you thought was a doe............just sayin........
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Post by trapperdave on Oct 26, 2015 15:01:45 GMT -5
just for the record, no such thing as a yearling fawn....a yearling is a 1 1\2 year old deer in the fall, fawn is 6 months ish
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Post by nfalls116 on Oct 26, 2015 15:08:45 GMT -5
If I want to kill two deer that day the doe first the fawn will come back if I only want to mess with one that day the fawn..
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 26, 2015 15:09:34 GMT -5
Neither...
IMO -
Wanting to "grow the herd" then shoot the fawn only UNLESS it is an ancient doe, then take her out. Keep your known breeders going..
If the desire is to REALLY grow the herd then shoot only the fawn if it is a button buck...
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Post by chubwub on Oct 26, 2015 15:56:39 GMT -5
Also going to go with shooting the fawn if herd growth is the goal, especially if the doe in question produced twins or triplets and successfully raised them to adulthood. As long as the doe is a proven producer and not ancient, she will continue to drop fawns well into old age. It only takes a couple males to cover several female deer.
Basically manage just like sheep. Cull the ones who only produce singles, unless they are phenomenal quality (ergo you saw the doe being breed by a 180 class buck), retain at least one or two quality female offspring from her to ensure her replacement, cull the rest as needed.
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Post by swilk on Oct 26, 2015 17:14:36 GMT -5
Well, if I was truly trying to "grow the herd" I wouldn't shoot either one.
Otherwise I would shoot the mature doe.
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Post by HuntMeister on Oct 26, 2015 17:57:48 GMT -5
Doe if I want meat, takes me nearly as long to process a fawn as an adult so I might as well get more meat.
Neither if I want to grow the herd.
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Post by span870 on Oct 26, 2015 18:03:49 GMT -5
I was always told if the choice shoot the older doe.
Okay here is what I found out and it surprised me. Deer farms for the most part don't breed 1st year for because the success rate is 50% at best. I decided to do some fact checking over that last couple of days and was surprised by what I found. Took a bunch of digging to find corresponding studies. The number of 1st year doe fawns that actually get bred and conceive a fawn is at best 50%. The amount of those for fawns that raise a fawn their first year is less than 7%. In one study the actual number was less than 2%. These were done on wild deer not in an enclosure. The fawn loss was not attributed to predation, more on the doe either not taking the care to raise the fawn or just not having the ability or knowledge to. I found it pretty interesting and thinking about it, it correlates with my rabbit breeding. I know on my first litter of any doe I can pretty well scratch the litter because they won't survive.
So it would actually make more sense of you are going to shoot one deer with the thought that one of them will do better off the smart thing to do would be to shoot the fawn. Also the rate of doe having more than one ie. twins and tripplets, was really miniscule no matter the age and the amount that raised more than one when having multiple fawns to its first fall was less than 10%. Even at late ages, and there were some 8 and 9 year old doe in these surveys, they still raised there young 90% of the time. After the first birth the success rate jumped to 80% it's second pregnancy.
Okay so am I the only one that is surprised by these numbers? Always was told shoot the old one and let the young live.
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Post by firstwd on Oct 26, 2015 18:15:46 GMT -5
Not at all.
Nature dictates the sick, old, and young are sacrificed to ensure the health and survival of the group. Humans are the only creatures on Earth that think they are smarter than nature.
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