Tick meds for dogs

Sorry for your loss and thank you for the heads up on the Advantixll.

Sorry to hear that Shane. I know Permethrin is very toxic for cats, but I thought it was ok for dogs and other animals..

First of all I want to say that I am very sorry for your loss. I was not there to see your dog but I will say that a complete paralysis with no other symptoms (unless you have have left the other ones out) is highly unusual for permethrin toxicity. Usually what you will see in severe cases is muscle tremors, vomiting, diarrhea, hyper-salivation and seizures and this occurs mostly in a canine when the dog does something incredibly stupid like eat the entire tube of flea medication. I would also expect to see some kind of skin reaction at the site where you placed the medication. Most of the time they just get a skin reaction, as absorbing enough pemerthrin through the skin to cause a systemic reaction is quite difficult unless the dog has literally been bathed in a vat of the stuff.It is also unusual that your dog did not recover as most animals will recover from pemerthrin toxicity with veterinary care.

I hope the vet has more answers for you that are a bit more concrete, as I said before, a sudden, complete paralysis without any other symptoms and clean bloodwork is highly unusual. It could have been something as simple as a pinched nerve in just the right place, or something like the tick medication not working and your dog contracting Lyme disease, which can cause sudden paralysis. It could have easily been one of the other 2 actives ingredients in the medication or one one the inert ingredients. Perhaps she rolled in some water and the medication washed off and then she ingested the water that she rolled in.

There is a lot of natural alarmist hype and misinformation regarding permethrin not being tested that is on par with the vaccines causing autism BS. Permethrin has been used for just about 100 years in a variety of applications and has been tested quite thoroughly on everything from monkeys to rats for oral and dermal applications. They even know the rate of absorption through the skin for each species...rat absorbs the fastest. The toxicity effects of pemerthrin are well documented as well. As for long term studies, you must keep in mind that conducting a 1-2 year study on an animal that only lives on average for 12-14 years is a very long study in terms of lifespan for that animal. It is equivalent to conducting a decade long study for a human being. These vets are correct, there is no use in conducting a decade long toxicity study in an animal that only lives for a decade when you can get all the information needed in 1-2 years in a true lifespan toxicity study on rats which have many of the same physiological characteristics of canines.

Trust me when I say that if there was a known issue with the product killing pets, ethical vets would be the first to speak up about it, even with a financial stake involved. There are plenty of other products to sell and services to offer in which they can make a profit. It does not matter if you are under contract to sell the product or not, there are policies in place to protect doctors and vets who are whistle blowers. A lot of vets will not recommend Advantix simply it because it doesn't work worth a darn.

Once again I hope that you can find some concrete answers. I do not like that the vet simply remained silent and allowed you to think that Advantix was the culprit instead of having a heart to heart with you about how difficult and challenging this diagnosis was and that he/she probably did not have a satisfactory answer for what happened.

First I mis spoke. I was using layman's terms that he was paralized. What the vet said was comostose.

I won't argue with you on effects and causes on animals on chemicals. You have way more knowledge than me.

As far as vets not selling permetherin based meds, I agree they shouldn't. The four I talked to don't. Three won't recommend and the fourth outright will tell you its poison. They are in a contract with Bayer. They must sell the products or face fines. It's easier to let the product expire on the shelf than sell it.

What I can say is there are thousands of complaints about advantix II. Very few about most others unless they are permetherin based. The EPA demanded that bayer do more testing on the short, long, and side effects on this particular one. One of the side effects of permetherin toxicity is temporary paralysis. Again these are my words as far as paralysis, comostose is what the vet used.

As far as any testing after the original vet, we were on our way to Louisville to the vet hospital there when the dog had no less than four seizures before we could get there. We had to stop at a vet before we got there. There was no chance for a pinched nerve. The dog layed down when he went to bed beside me and never moved after. I've seen enough animals poisoned to know how an animal reacts after it happens.

I am no way saying this will happen to every dog. Just be careful and do your research. There are thousands of complaints you can find that isn't just me. As far as the studies Bayer put out themselves, I trust them as much as I do the Brady Campaign on gun violence.

How much did your dog weigh?

Very odd. They will absorb some through the skin, but only about 1%, it is very hard to get drugs absorbed through the skin. Dogs start showing mild toxicity with oral ingestion at 50mg/kg, or in your case 795mg needs to be ingested orally. She would have to eat an entire tube of the 100lb dose (1.76 grams or 1,076mg) Advantix to start showing symptoms. Most vet do not like Advantix because of the toxicity to cats, which is well documented but has very few effects on most dogs over 20 lbs.

I still strongly feel that something else is going on. I would examine your environment very carefully. Were the seizures the only symptom or were their others? Just having seizures can be difficult to diagnose.

It's for flea, tick, and mosquito's. Reason I used it was the mosquito repellent because my beagles are outside.

Which is it? First you say vets don't recommend it because it doesn't work than you say the dont recommend because its toxic to cats. I've had 4 not recommend. Three wouldn't say why and the fourth flat out said its toxic to dogs.

Anyone that knows my farm, knows there is zero chance to get into anything poison. I watched a cat die that ate a poisoned mouse. Horrible thing. I don't even have mouse poison or insecticides anywhere they can get to them.

You can push all the "facts" you want but it doesn't change the fact that you have a healthy dog, place meds on it, the next morning you wake up and he is in a comatose state. After first checkup the vet wanted to know what he could have gotten into because she was leaning towards poison. Again why is the EPA pushing for more regulations and oversight into spot on treatments, especially this one, if there isn't a problem. The fact is the rates of complaints to the EPA over doubled in a 5 year span. Anywhere from rashes, burns, muscle spasms, seizures, and death.

I won't comment again to you on this because I don't want to argue it. I'm not saying don't use it. I personally never will. If you are, put it on that you can watch the dog for no less than 12 hours, keep a bottle of Dawn dishwashing detergent handy, and at the first sign wash the dog to stop the absorption into the skin. I won't take away from it. The stuff works better than anything else. Just because you use it and have no issues it doesn't mean you won't. Every time you put it on it increases to chance of an adverse reaction. A simple Google search will give you all the info you need. Some scientific, some just regular ol people telling bad tales.

Shane.... can you post a pic or link to the type of stuff you used?

thanks...