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Post by Huntnfreak on May 16, 2015 21:30:38 GMT -5
We've heard a lot of the cons to HPR's, so what are some of the pros of legalizing HPR's in your personal opinion as a whitetail hunter? Honestly curious to know from guys that hunt/shoot/familiar with HPR's.
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Post by dbd870 on May 17, 2015 6:40:19 GMT -5
Better chance of recovery. Increased accuracy. (amount depends on what you compare it to)
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Post by drs on May 17, 2015 7:50:12 GMT -5
Better chance of recovery. Increased accuracy. (amount depends on what you compare it to)
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Post by swilk on May 17, 2015 8:14:07 GMT -5
Over what we have now? Availability.... bout all I can think of.
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Post by M4Madness on May 17, 2015 9:45:14 GMT -5
1. Better accuracy. 2. Ammunition more readily available. 3. Lighter recoil. 4. Safer (due to bullets fragmenting as opposed to slugs plowing through brush and ricocheting.) 5. More off-the-shelf rifle choices. 6. Less expensive than custom wildcats. 7. Easily suppressed to reduce hearing damage and noise pollution. 8. Legal for hunting in most states, so same rifle can be used for hunting here and across North America.
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Post by jimstc on May 17, 2015 13:19:44 GMT -5
1. Better accuracy. 2. Ammunition more readily available. 3. Lighter recoil. 4. Safer (due to bullets fragmenting as opposed to slugs plowing through brush and ricocheting.) 5. More off-the-shelf rifle choices. 6. Less expensive than custom wildcats. 7. Easily suppressed to reduce hearing damage and noise pollution. 8. Legal for hunting in most states, so same rifle can be used for hunting here and across North America. What he said!!
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Post by Gunsafe on May 17, 2015 20:05:34 GMT -5
I can add one more to m4madness list , i think we are treated unfairly so why can't we use rifles the same caliber as the pistols packers use , somebody needs to wake , up this is the 21 century , some people still live in the stone age.
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Post by Huntnfreak on May 17, 2015 20:28:21 GMT -5
1. Better accuracy. 2. Ammunition more readily available. 3. Lighter recoil. 4. Safer (due to bullets fragmenting as opposed to slugs plowing through brush and ricocheting.) 5. More off-the-shelf rifle choices. 6. Less expensive than custom wildcats. 7. Easily suppressed to reduce hearing damage and noise pollution. 8. Legal for hunting in most states, so same rifle can be used for hunting here and across North America. I can see your point on all except for #6. Any person that wants to drop the $$$ for a wildcat build...that is totally on them! You don't need a wildcat round to harvest whitetails. Although your right..that shouldn't play any part in HPR's becoming legal..just thinking out loud.
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Post by swilk on May 17, 2015 20:38:04 GMT -5
Wildcats are as accurate as any other centerfire. 44mag ammunition is pretty cheap. 357mag has little recoil. Safer is an interesting thought....wonder how that data changes when you use a solid copper bullet that won't fragment. Don't see why any encore barrel couldn't be suppressed.
The customs can be expensive and take a while to get.
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Post by drs on May 18, 2015 4:35:06 GMT -5
1. Better accuracy. 2. Ammunition more readily available. 3. Lighter recoil. 4. Safer (due to bullets fragmenting as opposed to slugs plowing through brush and ricocheting.) 5. More off-the-shelf rifle choices. 6. Less expensive than custom wildcats. 7. Easily suppressed to reduce hearing damage and noise pollution. 8. Legal for hunting in most states, so same rifle can be used for hunting here and across North America. 1. It's a fact that H.P. rifles are a bit more accurate than a sabot firing shot gun with a rifled barrel. 2. Ammunition for H.P. Rifles are, most of the time, is easier to find, plus less expensive. 3. High Powered rifle ammunition is safer, from a ricocheting point, due in part: velocity, bullet size, and weight plus fragmentation. 4. From a recoil standpoint, most H.P. rifles have less recoil and the rifles usually weigh less than a bulky heavy recoiling 12 gauge slug load.
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Post by tynimiller on May 18, 2015 8:47:52 GMT -5
I respect and agree with a lot of what m4madness stated below...however I inserted my thoughts (bolded and italics) inside of his quote: 1. Better accuracy. -Accuracy is 100% dependent on the shooter. I could place a .22 target pistol in the hands of some of the people that come into the shooting range I work part time at and they'll still shoot like crap. Stripped down to just the guns if they could fire themselves with no human interaction, one could say they hold more accuracy potential out past effective ranges of guns compared to...as example, a 30-06 will hold greater accuracy potential than a .44mag at 400 yards yes...but if someone could fire that .44 mag to it's fullest ability they could hit at 400 yards consistently too (wouldn't be as lethal and you'd have to hold ridiculously high but the accuracy of the gun would allow it).2. Ammunition more readily available. -This is a fact if comparing it to the wildcat rounds...but pretty sure shotgun and pistol hunting rounds are nearly always available locally at least here but always online...now sometimes .44 mag is tougher to come by but for hunting rounds I've never had an issue finding them....target rounds are another thing though.3. Lighter recoil. -Yes....but only if you are comparing it to a 12 gauge slug gun or a .44 mag hard butted gun. A .357 or 20 guage are fully capable of being lethal and they are easier on the shoulders4. Safer (due to bullets fragmenting as opposed to slugs plowing through brush and ricocheting.) -THIS IS TRUE. Now when discussing safety as it pertains to distance traveled potential they do hold more danger but absolutely it is undeniable that a rifle actually is safer due to their inability to hold form and weight upon impact whether it be a ricochet or impact on target than a slug. This is one thing more people need to be aware of.5. More off-the-shelf rifle choices. -True but it isn't as if we're limited now though....I mean between ALL the shotguns (pump,lever,single,bolts), ALL the pistol caliber rifles (lever,bolt,pump,single) and Muzzleloaders on the market it isn't necessarily a pro which should justify passing it IMO6. Less expensive than custom wildcats. -Very true.7. Easily suppressed to reduce hearing damage and noise pollution. -I don't believe suppressed firearms should be allowed at all when hunting...opens an avenue for poachers and such to do this much easier. I say make the CO's jobs easier not harder, if they see a suppressed firearm in the field it is go time, no questions asked (this is just my personal feelings though...and I a big fan of cans!). Also it is a usual effect that suppressing a firearm can and usually does affect it's accuracy potential.8. Legal for hunting in most states, so same rifle can be used for hunting here and across North America. -This is a pro no-doubt but what is good for one isn't always good for others is what the nay-sayers will state. I say a properly handled firearm no matter the caliber can be safely fired if you follow proper firearm safety and shot selection....the terrain or "area" doesn't matter if you don't have a safe shot one shouldn't take it whether shooting across a field, 20 yards down from a stand or across a valley in Colorado.To me these are the Pro's and this is coming from a "Bow Hunting Anti" 1 - Cohesiveness across the board with caliber restrictions. Right now you can shoot a rifle round out of a pistol...either ban them all entirely or legalize them all entirely....not doing either just makes the state looks like idiots. 2 - Safer when talking limited to no chance of ricochet deaths or injuries occurring. Seems like every year a person or private property is impacted by a stray bullet...at least in this discussion they are a lot safer. 3 - People no longer can complain about being limited on their selection of what to use. I personally find this ridiculous with all the wildcat options, shotgun options, pistol caliber options and muzzleloaders but whatever....I'm ready to stop listening to it . I'll still hit the woods with my bow year round so no skin off my back.
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Post by js2397 on May 18, 2015 12:08:42 GMT -5
Two quick points,
1. Accuracy should be precision and has everything to do with the firearm and ammunition. Rifles are much more precise than a shotgun.
2. When shooting from a standing position from a level of 5 feet an 1800 fps shotgun round will hit the dirt at 330 yards from the shooter and a 3000 fps rifle round will hit the dirt at 550 yards from the shooter.
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Post by tynimiller on May 18, 2015 12:16:25 GMT -5
Two quick points, 1. Accuracy should be precision and has everything to do with the firearm and ammunition. Rifles are much more precise than a shotgun. 2. When shooting from a standing position from a level of 5 feet an 1800 fps shotgun round will hit the dirt at 330 yards from the shooter and a 3000 fps rifle round will hit the dirt at 55o yards from the shooter. Hold high enough and hold steady enough that slug will hit it's target at 550 yards (had to, but I get what you mean)
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Post by swilk on May 18, 2015 12:24:31 GMT -5
We arent talking rifles vs shotguns .... we are talking additional rifles vs what is already legal. Compared to what is already legal additional rifles offer only availability.
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Post by Gunsafe on May 18, 2015 14:01:21 GMT -5
If everybody that wanted the rifle proposal passed wound"nt but licenses this deer season maybe it would send a message to the dnr on how the public feels on there decisions , ....... some people let the public run the department , makes other states look a Indiana as idiots !
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Post by tynimiller on May 18, 2015 14:26:58 GMT -5
If everybody that wanted the rifle proposal passed wound"nt but licenses this deer season maybe it would send a message to the dnr on how the public feels on there decisions , ....... some people let the public run the department , makes other states look a Indiana as idiots ! Possibly. However, I wanted a September deer season....I'm a lifetime license holder but if not I would still buy a license this year. I also want minerals (true minerals not salt) to be allowed....again I'd still buy. The truth is though I don't think the public opinion was overwhelmingly for it as it was written. I do feel we'll see another proposal again, and I bet if they take out semi-autos as ones to be allowed this may get more support from what it seems are cited concerns over that even by those for the passing overall. We shall see.
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Post by jimstc on May 18, 2015 15:57:26 GMT -5
Quoted from a post above "7. Easily suppressed to reduce hearing damage and noise pollution.
-I don't believe suppressed firearms should be allowed at all when hunting...opens an avenue for poachers and such to do this much easier. I say make the CO's jobs easier not harder, if they see a suppressed firearm in the field it is go time, no questions asked (this is just my personal feelings though...and I a big fan of cans!). Also it is a usual effect that suppressing a firearm can and usually does affect it's accuracy potential."
Ty, not sure where you got your data, but I sure do disagree. First, unless you are using sub sonic ammo with the suppressor, you are still reporting the sound of a .22. Not like the BS in the movies. If you are running sub sonic and a semi auto, big probability you are now running a single shot. Sub sonic most likely won't cycle unless you are running a piston semi and maybe not even then. I have a suppressor that fits on the following: .223 10" barrel, .223 16" barrel and .204 20" barrel. Absolutely no affect on accuracy. Just my experience. I hunt coyotes with my suppressed barrel and my wife still hears me at over 500 yards. Opinions and facts. Strange bedfellows..........
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Post by Huntnfreak on May 18, 2015 16:08:36 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that most are looking to be able to harvest whitetails at a greater distance is the biggest reason or having multiple options of weapons to use?
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Post by firstwd on May 18, 2015 16:15:52 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that most are looking to be able to harvest whitetails at a greater distance is the biggest reason or having multiple options of weapons to use? Nope! I've got more range with my muzzle loader than I do with my 30/30. I still want to be able to use my 30/30.
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Post by M4Madness on May 18, 2015 16:49:23 GMT -5
Is it safe to say that most are looking to be able to harvest whitetails at a greater distance is the biggest reason or having multiple options of weapons to use? I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I was planning to use a single-shot Handi-Rifle chambered in 300 BLK with a suppressor. I was going to use subsonic Lehigh Defense ammunition, which was going to restrict my range to well under 100 yards. The HPR issue was never about extended range to me. Suppressors are already legal for hunting in Indiana, so it's a moot point. Suppressors change the harmonics of a barrel and tighten groups. POI may shift between suppressed and unsuppressed zeroes, but I've never seen a suppressor open up groups. Even using subsonic ammunition, it's still louder then archery tackle -- and no one ever complains about bowhunters being too quiet. When I mention accuracy, I'm referring to inherent accuracy of a firearm, not a shooter's ability. Quality high-powered rifles will hold tighter groups than shotguns, muzzleloaders, .44 Magnum rifles, etc. The tighter the group, the more leeway for shooter error. Aim small, miss small. Wildcats are cost prohibitive for many people. I can certainly afford one, but do not wish to pay a bunch of cash for some oddball caliber that no one outside of Indiana would give a second glance. Those who are in the business of wildcatting legal deer rounds here in Indiana would have certainly felt the sting if HPR's were legalized.
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