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Post by jjas on Feb 2, 2015 20:15:33 GMT -5
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Post by drs on Feb 3, 2015 5:44:10 GMT -5
Good article, which I agree with. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by featherduster on Feb 3, 2015 5:54:07 GMT -5
All things wild suffer when their habitat is in decline.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 3, 2015 9:21:06 GMT -5
Not in my neck of wood's. IMO EHD and to liberal antlerless harvest are 2 biggest factor's in the declining deer herd in my area.
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Post by jjas on Feb 3, 2015 10:24:57 GMT -5
Not in my neck of wood's. IMO EHD and to liberal antlerless harvest are 2 biggest factor's in the declining deer herd in my area. Do you know how much (if any) land has been removed in your hunting area from CRP over the last few years?
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Post by bartiks on Feb 3, 2015 12:12:17 GMT -5
In one word, ABSOLUTELY!!!
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 3, 2015 13:50:41 GMT -5
I live in Switz County. We have minimal grain farming as compared to central and northern Indiana. Very little developement as well. I am sure there has been some CRP ground removed, but with corn price's in the tank it is not a big issue in my area.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 3, 2015 16:00:41 GMT -5
Well in some areas I am sure that is the issue. Truth is not in my area either it looks just like it did the last 20 years .Just more excuses to direct attention away from overharvest in many areas .Also the effects of EHD that the IDNR never reacts to in a swift and prudent manor or make deep enough tag cuts when it happens too much Upper management pride and bureaucracy down there over the Biologists that simply will not allow such changes.More opinion from someone 1000 miles away .We never had much CRP here in this area to begin with its farm country and crp don't make as much money as crops !!! JMHO Its hard to make a call on it or throw a blanket over the whole thing and then say its the reason everywhere.
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Post by jjas on Feb 3, 2015 16:33:01 GMT -5
Well in some areas I am sure that is the issue. Truth is not in my area either it looks just like it did the last 20 years .Just more excuses to direct attention away from overharvest in many areas .Also the effects of EHD that the IDNR never reacts to in a swift and prudent manor or make deep enough tag cuts when it happens too much Upper management pride and bureaucracy down there over the Biologists that simply will not allow such changes.More opinion from someone 1000 miles away .We never had much CRP here in this area to begin with its farm country and crp don't make as much money as crops !!! JMHO Its hard to make a call on it or throw a blanket over the whole thing and then say its the reason everywhere. The article wasn't discussing Indiana specifically. It was more about the Midwest in general.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 3, 2015 16:44:00 GMT -5
Well in some areas I am sure that is the issue. Truth is not in my area either it looks just like it did the last 20 years .Just more excuses to direct attention away from overharvest in many areas .Also the effects of EHD that the IDNR never reacts to in a swift and prudent manor or make deep enough tag cuts when it happens too much Upper management pride and bureaucracy down there over the Biologists that simply will not allow such changes.More opinion from someone 1000 miles away .We never had much CRP here in this area to begin with its farm country and crp don't make as much money as crops !!! JMHO Its hard to make a call on it or throw a blanket over the whole thing and then say its the reason everywhere. The article wasn't discussing Indiana specifically. It was more about the Midwest in general. I understand that just my observation from the 3 main counties I hunt.FYI he is still throwing a giant blanket that only partially applies but its not the main cause IMHO .
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Post by jjas on Feb 3, 2015 16:59:12 GMT -5
The article wasn't discussing Indiana specifically. It was more about the Midwest in general. I understand that just my observation from the 3 main counties I hunt.FYI he is still throwing a giant blanket that only partially applies but its not the main cause IMHO . I don't think that was the author's intention..... What would be interesting is to see how many acres were in CRP a few years back and compare that to now and see if in the areas where it has diminished if those are the same areas with diminished deer harvest numbers.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 3, 2015 17:05:14 GMT -5
I understand that just my observation from the 3 main counties I hunt.FYI he is still throwing a giant blanket that only partially applies but its not the main cause IMHO . I don't think that was the author's intention..... What would be interesting is to see how many acres were in CRP a few years back and compare that to now and see if in the areas where it has diminished if those are the same areas with diminished deer harvest numbers. Not the author who I pointing a finger at it was the QDMA guru that will never take any responsibility for any of this .Remember shoot a doe save a buck and bring the herd into better ratio ??QDMA pushed doe killing for so long they forget that they were the instrument of the communication of herd decline in all this .Truth is what it is so its habitat loss not over harvest any design in every Midwest state!!! !! LMAO and SMH at the Teflon QDMA guru He is living in denial and not pointing the finger at the true cause .It was planned and they were and are a huge part of that plan.It is funny how everyone wants there to be another cause but the truth is herd "REDUCTION" plans are the direct cause nothing more or less . Everyone wants to pass the buck but the DNRs are all saying its part of their plan as to why there are less deer .Habitat loss may have something to do with it in some areas but most its just "antlerless tag sales and big doe limits" nothing more or less. They target specific hunter groups greed to get it done ."not all hunters just some that's all they needed. QDMAs stance was used and perverted in the deer reduction plans for over a decade.
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Post by windingwinds on Feb 4, 2015 4:21:04 GMT -5
I would love to also see numbers of acres lost to development and nonenvironmental friendly farming practices. CRP is just a part of the habitat loss. How many large farms are split up and are now subdivisions? How many fence rows have been torn out? Another reason to keep fencerows up? Snowmobiles. Saw tracks for miles this week as they trespass along the major highways-no big deal until someone gets hurt and the suing begins. Locally many of the farmers have went from no-till to plowing everything under after harvest. Not wildlife friendly and not friendly for soil and water conservation.
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Post by jjas on Feb 4, 2015 8:44:58 GMT -5
I would love to also see numbers of acres lost to development and nonenvironmental friendly farming practices. CRP is just a part of the habitat loss. How many large farms are split up and are now subdivisions? How many fence rows have been torn out? Another reason to keep fencerows up? Snowmobiles. Saw tracks for miles this week as they trespass along the major highways-no big deal until someone gets hurt and the suing begins. Locally many of the farmers have went from no-till to plowing everything under after harvest. Not wildlife friendly and not friendly for soil and water conservation. That's the point of the article that I was interested in as well. I get that people are upset over antlerless permits and the late antlerless season, but habitat loss from ground going from CRP to farming and land sold for development is a problem and that loss of habitat obviously lowers the carrying capacity of the land.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 4, 2015 13:25:06 GMT -5
Deer adjust well to changing condition's. EX. (Urban deer herd's have flurished). Bottom line it is over harvest of antlerless. IMO that is not QDMA's fault as they have some great idea's and management practice's. At the end of the day it is us hunter's that pull the trigger so we don't have anyone to blame but ourselves. Many area's of the state the deer herd is fine, while other area's it is way down. You can blame habitat loss, EHD, DNR etc but hunter's are the one's shooting the deer.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 4, 2015 17:13:11 GMT -5
Deer adjust well to changing condition's. EX. (Urban deer herd's have flurished). Bottom line it is over harvest of antlerless. IMO that is not QDMA's fault as they have some great idea's and management practice's. At the end of the day it is us hunter's that pull the trigger so we don't have anyone to blame but ourselves. Many area's of the state the deer herd is fine, while other area's it is way down. You can blame habitat loss, EHD, DNR etc but hunter's are the one's shooting the deer. Agreed in principal about the ideas of QDMA in the perfect big property world. However its undisputable that they pushed that kill doe and let all the bucks walk until they are gummers agenda and now are reeling from that in states in the Midwest . People tend to forget that QDMA was founded in two areas of our country with huge over populated starving deer herds .The Carolinas and TX. and grew from there .Unless a hunter from here has hunted those places they can not understand the huge day to night contrast in forage and deer herds compared to the Midwest and those places .They never changed what they preached until it was too late and too many impressionable hunters bought into the QDMA , DNR policies . Words Grant Woods uttered in print and on line just 7 years ago. He said "When hunters/managers are killing doe's a hunter can not kill too many. If they think they have shot enough they likely need to keep shooting them" .That is one of QDMAs top poster boys .How ignorant and irresponsible is he to even suggest that ?? How can we expect average truly "Deer" under educated deer hunters to not listen and buy into that when their so called experts and hero's are preaching that BS ? However their mantra and practices never changed until the last 4-5 years when they started backstroking saying if your deer herd is within carrying capacity then you should maintain that .When they started moving into heavily hunted great deer habitat THE MIDWEST they continued to think that more than 2.5 deer per sq mile was too many .There is in some very old QDMA publications a quote from them with that very number .Now 2,5 deer per sq mile in the Midwest would be laughable and in just one season be almost a total loss of deer for the state . Here is the problem most deer hunters are truly really bad deer herd managers but have great trigger management and will pull it every time if they have a tag available to do so.Problem is they tend to think when they see 5 -10 deer in a field even though there are none in the surrounding fields they have too many deer and will continue to shoot and over do it. Just saw a post here from someone claiming that at this time of year with no real knowledge that he is likely seeing most the deer in a mile or two area .So sad at best he don't even know he will in the spring will loose most those deer as they relocate back into their home summer ranges a mile or even two away. You hear this stuff from hunters every winter and it gets old .To see 10 deer in a field to have anyone think that was too many or that they are staying there all year is laughable at best to say the least in the dead of winter in the yarding season. Yes I lay blame on all sides evenly and QDMA has a big hand in this even if it is past tense with all their efforts to CYA at this time.. A tool used by an agency is still a Tool .
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 4, 2015 17:17:35 GMT -5
Deer adjust well to changing condition's. EX. (Urban deer herd's have flurished). Bottom line it is over harvest of antlerless. IMO that is not QDMA's fault as they have some great idea's and management practice's. At the end of the day it is us hunter's that pull the trigger so we don't have anyone to blame but ourselves. Many area's of the state the deer herd is fine, while other area's it is way down. You can blame habitat loss, EHD, DNR etc but hunter's are the one's shooting the deer. One more thing You are right it is hunters and the DNR current admin and push .Even if deer cover was lost the deer as long as the Ag fields and creek lines and wood lots they would not just disappear and or stop having fawns .Just more pas the buck and stay off the real " issues " because if they point the finger at liberal limits and " Greedy hunters" they would become unpopular and loose support not to mention business .IF a person looks at the States in the Midwest they all are on exactly the same path and have exactly the same issues .That's how it actually is IMHO .
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Post by hunterman on Feb 4, 2015 18:06:56 GMT -5
I can look back over the years and think of places I have killed deer that are now mowed lawns. I think the fence rows in Rush county a declining at an alarming rate. Good for farmers, bad for deer and wildlife.
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Post by drs on Feb 5, 2015 5:27:33 GMT -5
I can look back over the years and think of places I have killed deer that are now mowed lawns. I think the fence rows in Rush county a declining at an alarming rate. Good for farmers, bad for deer and wildlife. Anyway you evaluate it, Indiana and other States are losing wildlife habitat at an alarming rate. THIS, is the biggest threat to Hunting and for various wildlife species. When I lived in Indiana (where I was born & raised); I lost several hunting spots, especially during the late 1980's through 2000. Growing-up I had ample places to hunt and saw one by one being developed during the '80's-'2000's. I solved this problem of losing hunting land by moving to Kentucky, in 2008, purchasing 83 acres of hunting ground + new home, in a remote area of Central Kentucky. Just got tired of seeing all my hunting spots turned into housing developments & malls.
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