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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 26, 2014 20:32:46 GMT -5
The "my way is the right way" attitude is the core of what has become wrong with this country these days. Oh? "Become wrong with this country"!? Who's opinion is that?! Lol I suppose you have a problem with folks like myself teaching kids how to respect others in the woods, along with the animals we pursue? Don't leave trash behind, make every effort to recover your animal, read the regs each year, always practice with your weapon, try to maintain a health balance between food source and the wildlife... I'd go on but I guess I'm only on the path of what's wrong with this country?! We all teach our youngsters what we believe is the right way to hunt. That may or may not include the "right" methods. Different strokes for different folks and all that ..
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Post by firstwd on Nov 26, 2014 22:12:45 GMT -5
The "my way is the right way" attitude is the core of what has become wrong with this country these days. Oh? "Become wrong with this country"!? Who's opinion is that?! Lol I suppose you have a problem with folks like myself teaching kids how to respect others in the woods, along with the animals we pursue? Don't leave trash behind, make every effort to recover your animal, read the regs each year, always practice with your weapon, try to maintain a health balance between food source and the wildlife... I'd go on but I guess I'm only on the path of what's wrong with this country?! In the post that you mentioned "teaching them the right way", you put down adding HPR's and gun season in general. With over 20 years of dealings with the "archery is the only way" groups, those statements sounded eerily similar to ones I have heard, read, and defended the majority of Indiana's deer hunters against time and time again. If that perception was wrong, then I apologize. Seeing that you appear very new to this site, I can understand why your perception of me is so completely off base with the person I am. Maybe we can meet up for lunch one day or at one of my classes or a youth hunt and we can trade teaching tips?
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Post by drs on Nov 27, 2014 6:06:28 GMT -5
I believe what he was trying to say is that today's slug guns and muzzleloaders shoot like high-powered rifles so we may as well legalize HPR's. CORRECT!! One reason I petitioned the State way back in 1987, asking them to consider Deer Hunters be allowed to use cartridges like .44 Magnum for Deer. I pointed out to them that today's modern sabot shotgun ammunition loads used in "rifled" bores and also the same applies to M/L using jacketed bullets in sabots, has the same ballistics as "Higher Powered" Pistol cartridges. Finally in 2007 someone got "smart" and figured out what I have been pointing out, in comparing the power of Shotgun Sabot ammunition, M/L sabots with cartridges like the .44 Magnum, .45 Long Colt, and a host of other cartridges. NO DIFFERENCE in safety factor & range of use. A box of .44 Magnum ammunition is much less expensive than paying up to $12 - $15 for a box of "5" shotgun sabot ammunition. One thing, I am glad we don't have this stupid issue regarding "legal cartridges types" for our Deer Hunting here in Kentucky.
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Post by jimbob on Nov 27, 2014 9:36:58 GMT -5
Oh? "Become wrong with this country"!? Who's opinion is that?! Lol I suppose you have a problem with folks like myself teaching kids how to respect others in the woods, along with the animals we pursue? Don't leave trash behind, make every effort to recover your animal, read the regs each year, always practice with your weapon, try to maintain a health balance between food source and the wildlife... I'd go on but I guess I'm only on the path of what's wrong with this country?! In the post that you mentioned "teaching them the right way", you put down adding HPR's and gun season in general. With over 20 years of dealings with the "archery is the only way" groups, those statements sounded eerily similar to ones I have heard, read, and defended the majority of Indiana's deer hunters against time and time again. If that perception was wrong, then I apologize. Seeing that you appear very new to this site, I can understand why your perception of me is so completely off base with the person I am. Maybe we can meet up for lunch one day or at one of my classes or a youth hunt and we can trade teaching tips? I love bow season, don't get me wrong, but understand guns are very necessary, especially for kids and the elderly as well as people with disabilities to enjoy the sport. I guess my hang up is if your trying to teach a youth about traditional hunting and the next door neighbor who already loved filling very tag the state issues (bonus antlerless) (but doesn't take scent control, or a deer's ability serious) now sees a deer at 300 yards, and says "well I have this HPR" now... I'm gonna take a shot weather he ever practiced that distance or not. From Xbows standpoint, I see and hear about more deer being wounded then ever before (and I know it's going to happen), but when you ask what happened, it's usually a 30-50 yards shot on a 25 mph wind day. Then you question the distance and they say the practice that shot everyday?! It's the "new capability" standpoint, "well I got a xbow, I can shot 50 yards now" or I have a HPR "I can shot 300 yards now" that drives me nuts. Granted IN THE RIGHT HANDS I have no problem with HPR in Indiana, but fathers and grandfathers don't spend the time they use to with their kids and grandkids like they use to... The same ones that will be toting these weapons around, so I have to take as many kids out and show them the right way. Happy Thanksgiving, and hopefully your classes are close because my 10 year old needs to get her hunter education class in before the next season .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 9:45:05 GMT -5
It sounds like you teach your children well. I appreciate that.
I would also encourage you to teach them not to let what others choose to do influence their thoughts or actions.
Teach them to make their own legal choices and to understand others may choose different legal paths, and that what others do, legally, has no bearing on their own legal choices. Teach them to be supportive of all legal and ethical hunting methods.
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 27, 2014 12:27:21 GMT -5
One thing I need to add to this conversation is that HPR's have a lot more assets than just long-range shooting. In fact, their range is the LEAST reason I want to use one for deer.
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Post by esshup on Nov 27, 2014 12:43:35 GMT -5
the test will be when and if all rifles are allowed. Then we will know and I hope I am wrong about what will happen in the flatter areas of the state. I do know a lot of counties have laws in place like not shooting within 1000' radius of a building maybe that will help Can you list the counties and copy/paste the law that says that? I personally don't know of any laws like that here in Indiana and want to make sure I'm legal.
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Post by deadeer on Nov 27, 2014 16:51:03 GMT -5
I hunt with high power rifle cartridges in handguns and smokeless powder muzzleloaders. I routinely practice to 400yd sometimes, and 300+yd regularly. Adding a hpr to my arsenal really won't do anything for me other than add debt. The only gain for me would be a fast backup shot compared to the mz, and of course versatility over handguns, due to them needing a special kind of rest to hold steady. I would likely buy another barrel for an Encore to try, but don't see this changing my plans much. Several of my buds have/bought 30-30's recently and would now love to jump on the bandwagon if hpr does happen. As for the distance rule, other than a school, I don't think a number applies to anything. I have a stand approx. 50yd off a county road, and asked a CO if it was ok while also showing him my handgun, and he said as long as you do not shoot ACROSS a road, it's all good.
Jay
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 27, 2014 17:20:53 GMT -5
Funny this i saw on this thread about wounding deer and xbows . I know numerous hunters and all I hear is how clean and quick the kills and recoveries are with xbow .I am not being argumentative at all .But the truth is I have over the dozens of story's and hunters I speak too and know that either use a xbow or know or hunt with xbow users .Have yet to tell me a single lost deer story with a xbow .
Yet just this year I know 4 deer lost to very archers one a ex world and national IBO champ and two with old fashioned pump slug guns both using foster slugs .
I believe as stated HPRs and xbows will simply result in more first time shot deer being checked in rather than being left for coyote food or lost . I will take that rather than two or 3 that the guys loosing deer are now shooting to just get one each .Sorry but vert bow hunters wound /loose far more game than any other type of hunter in the woods by percentage
FYI I am a vert bow hunter as well and also now use a xbow .The chance of missing or wounding with my xbow is far far less on any given day in the woods .FYI I too am a past IBO national champ got the bling and everything to prove it too .lol
Yes anyone can make a bad shot but when a weapon lowers those odds its our resposibility to try to ues them or allow them when we can .Especially for those not as gifted in marksmanship .
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Post by swilk on Nov 27, 2014 19:02:34 GMT -5
I know of deer shot and lost by crossbows just like every other weapon type.....including deer lost after being hit with the 358wssm.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 27, 2014 19:13:19 GMT -5
The simple fact is no weapon can correct poor shot placement.
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Post by swilk on Nov 27, 2014 19:42:39 GMT -5
Yep.
In the case of the 358 there was also bullet performance issues.
No such thing as a sure thing.
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Post by drs on Nov 28, 2014 5:04:28 GMT -5
I know of deer shot and lost by crossbows just like every other weapon type.....including deer lost after being hit with the 358wssm. Your post makes me recall once, while hunting in Colorado, one of my hunting buddies shot a Mule Deer, with his 7 m/m Remington Magnum. We had to trail that Mule Deer for around 1 1/2 Miles before finding him dead near a fence line. His shot hit the Deer a bit too high missing the Heart/Lung area.
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ric0
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Post by ric0 on Nov 28, 2014 9:14:02 GMT -5
I've hunted in KY all my life and did so this year. I left my HPR in the truck most of the time an used my muzzleloader. It's a good challenge and more fun especially if you miss.. LOL Which I did and still got a button buck.
I will be hunting in IN next year and have no beef with only using my muzzy or some other firearm.
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Post by bartiks on Nov 28, 2014 11:01:57 GMT -5
I had a CO come across me and my hunting party on opening day and he said that he is 90-95% sure the proposal will pass. I know that if it does pass I will be absent from my stand for those 2 weeks.
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Post by shouldernuke on Nov 28, 2014 11:12:59 GMT -5
I had a CO come across me and my hunting party on opening day and he said that he is 90-95% sure the proposal will pass. I know that if it does pass I will be absent from my stand for those 2 weeks. May I ask ...WHY? ? You will likely have the exact same gun hunters around you have always had and they know you are there and likely the area you are on stand .They in turn will likley take no longer or more risky shots than they do now .Why waste two weeks of season becaue of a weapon that is already in the woods around you now ?? And last I looked deer do not fly tree top high ..LOL This reminds me of those hunters who said they would not go hunting with xbow hunters in the woods with them .and now a few seasons later most have not even seen a xbow hunter and it made no difference in their personal hunting experiance at all . To barrow a phrase from Woody here MUCH ADDO ABOUT NOTHING !!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 11:19:15 GMT -5
I had a CO come across me and my hunting party on opening day and he said that he is 90-95% sure the proposal will pass. I know that if it does pass I will be absent from my stand for those 2 weeks. To quote myself... "Myths die hard, if they die at all"
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 28, 2014 13:27:38 GMT -5
Greetings All I am going to say is that I am struggling to understand the logic of some posts regarding the dangers of the hpr You have had one ounce twelve bore slugs bouncing around your ears for years. Use frangible bullets and you are a lot safer than a slug gun. Regards Billy
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Post by schoolmaster on Nov 28, 2014 15:34:03 GMT -5
Where I hunt in Indiana is flat farmland. Lots of houses. I have hunted there for about 40 years. My sons and grandkids hunt there also. I (we) have used shotguns, single shot pistols, revolvers, muzzleloaders, bows, crossbows, and have been shooting the .358 wssm short mags since the rule came out. No one has been killed, no one has been injured, no equipment or buildings have been harmed. We average about 3 deer a year off this property. We do not have the numbers of deer to be able to pick and choose which ones will be "shooters" or not. We are meat hunters pure and simple. We respect every deer taken. Words like "bald", "slick head", and "dink buck", are not in our vocabulary. I use the best equipment I can afford. I want to put down my deer the most efficient way possible. Our .358 wssm rifles are very accurate and have enough power to cleanly put down a deer out to 250 yards or so. We take the high shoulder shot and drop them in their tracks. No problems with the hunters on the other side of the property line. We process our own deer and have learned how to salvage blood shot shoulders. No meat is wasted. As more of my grandkids get ready to hunt, being able to provide them with a accurate, efficient, factory rifle is a plus.
w
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Post by bartiks on Nov 28, 2014 18:14:11 GMT -5
I didn't mean to ignite a "fire storm", I was just passing on what the CO had told me and my party. As for me not going out in the woods for those 2 weeks, to put it politely that is my prerogative. So for that being said we can agree to disagree.
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