|
|
Post by tynimiller on Sept 8, 2014 9:40:33 GMT -5
I would be good with making it legal too! However, I would want it to be truly mineral sites not just salt piles in essence that is just baiting. Like 40% salt or less products or something...opens up door to baiting if not. However, I personally would never bait so wouldn't affect my hunting style. I would think that would require some sort of sampling and analysis to determine the percentages. Who would want to have to sample their mineral sites to determine if they were legal? Also, one sample could be 40%, 6 inches away it could be 10%, 6 inches the other way 80%, etc. IMO, either needs to be legalized altogether, or left alone. Pretty much all the mineral attractants I see on the shelves / stock floor have salt attractants in them. I didn't mean that site I meant the product utilized. Many products claim to be mineral supplements when truly are just giant salt licks, which provide minimal if any true healthy benefits outside of the abundance of salt present (which is needed but in very small amounts to assist in temperature regulation and some other things). As an example Trophy Rock is not a mineral block it is as high as 96% salt content (guaranteed analysis on their own label). Leaves next to nothing of benefit to healthier bone/skeletal structure, organ functioning, lactation of does and re-introduction of nutrients depleted/used by rutting deer or harsh winter survival. |
|
|
|
Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Sept 8, 2014 9:52:10 GMT -5
I would think that would require some sort of sampling and analysis to determine the percentages. Who would want to have to sample their mineral sites to determine if they were legal? Also, one sample could be 40%, 6 inches away it could be 10%, 6 inches the other way 80%, etc. IMO, either needs to be legalized altogether, or left alone. Pretty much all the mineral attractants I see on the shelves / stock floor have salt attractants in them. I didn't mean that site I meant the product utilized. Many products claim to be mineral supplements when truly are just giant salt licks, which provide minimal if any true healthy benefits outside of the abundance of salt present (which is needed but in very small amounts to assist in temperature regulation and some other things). As an example Trophy Rock is not a mineral block it is as high as 96% salt content (guaranteed analysis on their own label). Leaves next to nothing of benefit to healthier bone/skeletal structure, organ functioning, lactation of does and re-introduction of nutrients depleted/used by rutting deer or harsh winter survival. But from an enforcement standpoint, when the CO is looking at a muddy hole in the ground, how would he know what the salt content was of whatever you are dumping out? I get what you are saying, in that salt is more of an attractant than any real benefit to the deer, but I just don't see the regulating of mineral compositions of bait / mineral attractants as either an effective or enforceable standard. I know I have thrown white salt blocks, "mineral" blocks, trophy rocks, etc. into mine over the years, and could not even begin to tell you what the current salt content of the soil is. My guess is that you couldn't tell me yours either. |
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Sept 8, 2014 10:02:53 GMT -5
I didn't mean that site I meant the product utilized. Many products claim to be mineral supplements when truly are just giant salt licks, which provide minimal if any true healthy benefits outside of the abundance of salt present (which is needed but in very small amounts to assist in temperature regulation and some other things). As an example Trophy Rock is not a mineral block it is as high as 96% salt content (guaranteed analysis on their own label). Leaves next to nothing of benefit to healthier bone/skeletal structure, organ functioning, lactation of does and re-introduction of nutrients depleted/used by rutting deer or harsh winter survival. But from an enforcement standpoint, when the CO is looking at a muddy hole in the ground, how would he know what the salt content was of whatever you are dumping out? I get what you are saying, in that salt is more of an attractant than any real benefit to the deer, but I just don't see the regulating of mineral compositions of bait / mineral attractants as either an effective or enforceable standard. I know I have thrown white salt blocks, "mineral" blocks, trophy rocks, etc. into mine over the years, and could not even begin to tell you what the current salt content of the soil is. My guess is that you couldn't tell me yours either. Not getting what I'm saying. Indiana could easily regulate, to an extent, what is used by making it illegal to sell the high salt stuff on the shelves of Indiana businesses. However, honestly I'm for making them legal, period...so long as it doesn't open the door to baiting in forms of pile of corn and such (two totally different animals in my opinion). However, if we ever pass to allow them I think $ spent on educating Indiana deer hunters to the benefits of true mineral supplementation is worth it. Overall though I will continue to utilize minerals legally, and shut them down legally each year in conjuction with conversations with DNR officers. I strongly suggest everyone talk to local authorities to your area as well because the law is written terribly and some speculation or personal interpretation by the officer could cost the hunter big time! Some notes worth considering: -There is no proximity which is deemed OKAY...so whether you own 1000acres or 5 acres the mineral site could cost you if you don't take steps to shutting it down/removing it. -Shut it down prior to the 10 day minimum...this will allow the deer some time to adjust to it being closed off and possibly, depending on locale, even show the DNR should a visit happen that no deer presence is really happening at the site. -Just for nutritional standpoint, consider using only mineral supplements with disclosed ingredient listing guaranteed. Paying close attention to the salt content. |
|
|
|
Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Sept 8, 2014 10:04:55 GMT -5
Another option is just not hunt near it. This is also gonna depend on topography, but even most small properties you can dedicate a small corner to a mineral site and just not hunt in the vicinity of it. I have a 25 acre spot where it is easy to avoid this corner while hunting. I have another, where there's only about 8-10 acres of woods, and all flat (except for a couple sinkholes). You can pretty well see all the way through the property when the leaves are down. I just don't put any minerals out in this spot. Proximity does not exempt you from the law, every DNR officer I'm in touch with would not let this fly. I would strongly encourage discussions with our local officers. 25 acres isn't very big and I'd hate to have the "debate" with an officer claiming the "I don't hunt near it" claim. I have no reason to not believe you, but he or she would have no proof of such a claim but would have proof of an active site on your property which you admit you know about. I wouldn't need to have a debate with a CO claiming "I don't hunt near it." I don't hunt near it, and don't know any CO who would ticket someone if they were not hunting near it. I don't know of a single instance where someone was ticketed because they had a mineral site on their property. They would need to be observed hunting it. The rules state that it is illegal to use bait (includes mineral sites) to take deer. That is a very vague statement. I believe this is so that CO's can use their own common sense and discretion when enforcing this out in the field. Ultimately, it is up to each individual hunter to use their own common sense when applying this vague rule to their specific property. I think a lot of guys try to get around the rule, such as hunting trails leading to salt licks /etc., and that is where most of the violations stem from. Sorry Boonechaser for getting off topic. |
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Sept 8, 2014 10:26:26 GMT -5
The rules state that it is illegal to use bait (includes mineral sites) to take deer. That is a very vague statement. I believe this is so that CO's can use their own common sense and discretion when enforcing this out in the field. Sorry Boonechaser for getting off topic. The common sense and discretion is why I stress to be extra careful and take the small time it takes to shut it down officially...not worth possibly getting popped but I agree most CO's are level headed guys and would draw proper conclusions. Sorry to Boonechaser but I think it is always a discussion worth having to educate anyone (not directed to you Lawrence, mean others reading that may not know better). |
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Sept 8, 2014 10:29:53 GMT -5
What is "near it"?
There is no answer to that question and that is just part of the problem.....
Officer discretion in place of precisely written laws is a two way street.....one day there might be a situation where an officer just feels the need to write a ticket. With current wording there would be little a hunter could do about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Sept 8, 2014 10:35:00 GMT -5
What is "near it"? There is no answer to that question and that is just part of the problem..... Officer discretion in place of precisely written laws is a two way street.....one day there might be a situation where an officer just feels the need to write a ticket. With current wording there would be little a hunter could do about it. Spot on! Even though I have had numerous convos, have printed out email communications....a brand new officer could "conclude" it doesn't matter...poorly written law is an understatement. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 10:46:05 GMT -5
I agree. Poorly written regs. Too much ambiguity.
I say make mineral licks 100% legal, year round or 100% illegal year round. I prefer option A, but either would be preferable to the current state of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Sept 8, 2014 10:51:13 GMT -5
I agree. Poorly written regs. Too much ambiguity. I say make mineral licks 100% legal, year round or 100% illegal year round. I prefer option A, but either would be preferable to the current state of it. Big agreement here! |
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Sept 11, 2014 7:55:38 GMT -5
Yes this topic has been beat to death, but hey I like the idea to just fence of the site. (Thanks for idea). in the past I have removed all visible mineral and covered with top soil. (Time consuming). Now I am just gonna remove all visable mineral and stake and fence off. (Much easier.) So once again I learned something new. Most commercial mineral supplement's do contain high level's of salt no doubt, but I have found to get deer to consume on a regular basis it does require "an attractant". I have used trace mineral block's as an attractent and then add a commercial mineral/attractant in powder form as well as some additional calcium and phosphurus powder to mix in together. Seems to work well for me. I'd guess my sites are approx 70% attractant and 30% mineral. As I posted and have also observed over the year's is that bucks pretty much ignore the sites beginning mid August untill late winter. Have seen does digging in the older sites before though during hunting season. Agree that Indiana law is very poorly written and needs rewritten or done away with.
|
|
|
|
Post by deerpreacher on Sept 11, 2014 9:37:31 GMT -5
I agree. Poorly written regs. Too much ambiguity. I say make mineral licks 100% legal, year round or 100% illegal year round. I prefer option A, but either would be preferable to the current state of it. Big agreement here! |
|
|
|
Post by deerpreacher on Sept 11, 2014 9:46:39 GMT -5
Sorry guys trying to figure out this quote thing. I do agree either make it legal or no baiting at any time. I got busted a few years back after putting a mineral site out months before season and leaving it alone. I thought it would be ok but of course it wasn't. As a Pastor it was awkward moment. It was my first time to meet who would become the Post Commander of my district. A funny side note is that I am now a chaplain for that district.
|
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Sept 12, 2014 8:12:44 GMT -5
Out walking to check on food plot's y'day and saw a hand full of fresh rub's. THE TIME IS ALMOST here. Gonna get all my tree stands checked over weekend and replace some straps and hang pull up cord's.
|
|
