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Post by span870 on Jun 27, 2014 13:15:50 GMT -5
Question. Say I have a pair of rabbits both tan. They are bred together and the female has 2 rabbits. One tan and the other black. Who holds the black gene? The mother or the father? If one or the other is it a 50% gene? If I breed the daughter to the father assuming that he doesn't hold the black gene, how many generations does it take to breed the black gene out with a great probability. Would it be daughter has 25% then next generation would be 12.5% or does it not work like that? I assume that there will always be that gene in there but wondering if after say 4 generations it will be so watered down that it will be a negative worry.
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Post by pigeonflier on Jun 27, 2014 15:27:57 GMT -5
Black is probably a dominate color,, therefore it could be in either of them. If it was recessive I believe it would have to b in both to show, but without knowing the grandparents and beyond its tough to say!
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Post by span870 on Jun 27, 2014 22:39:43 GMT -5
Okay I've gotten two different answers from two different typed of breeders. One cattle one beagles. See if either makes sense.
First is if I breed sister to brother I will increase the likelihood of black. I would be breeding it into the offspring because both would have the gene thereby increasing the likelihood into every generation. That is where red Angus came from.
The 2nd is I can't breed the mother or the father anymore because the hold the recessive gene. I would have to breed sister to brother and take their offspring and breed sister to brother and eventually that would dilute. That was from beagle breeder. So who is correct?
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Post by drs on Jun 28, 2014 4:25:30 GMT -5
Question. Say I have a pair of rabbits both tan. They are bred together and the female has 2 rabbits. One tan and the other black. Who holds the black gene? The mother or the father? If one or the other is it a 50% gene? If I breed the daughter to the father assuming that he doesn't hold the black gene, how many generations does it take to breed the black gene out with a great probability. Would it be daughter has 25% then next generation would be 12.5% or does it not work like that? I assume that there will always be that gene in there but wondering if after say 4 generations it will be so watered down that it will be a negative worry. The Female would carry the recessive gene. This means that with your female rabbit, some where along her blood line, there was a black colored rabbit in that blood line. Also many times a generation is skipped usually based on the genes of your male rabbit. It just like diabetes; as the recessive gene, for this disease, is most always carried and passed on from the female side of the family. As for your rabbits, I would avoid inter-breeding of parent & offspring, as bad genetic traits could come into play resulting in a weak generation of rabbits. Knowing the pedigree, of any animal, should be of concern, before breeding, thus avoiding any unwanted traits. |
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Post by trapperdave on Jun 28, 2014 4:26:46 GMT -5
The first is correct. In breeding is never a good thing. It always brings out the worst traits. Start with good quality pure bred stock.
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Post by windingwinds on Jun 28, 2014 8:25:26 GMT -5
Number one question is why is black bad? I have been told by reliable sheep breeders inbreeding can intensify traits(good and bad), but often you end up with a smaller animal. Recessive traits can hide for many generations. There was a sabino (pinto) horse study that took Brown horses and inbred, and in just a few generations produced maximum sabinos (whites).
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Post by duff on Jun 28, 2014 9:50:02 GMT -5
I got a c- in college level genetics....I say sell em all or run them!
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 28, 2014 9:53:11 GMT -5
I got a c- in college level genetics....I! That good, eh?  |
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Post by span870 on Jun 28, 2014 9:57:14 GMT -5
Number one question is why is black bad? I have been told by reliable sheep breeders inbreeding can intensify traits(good and bad), but often you end up with a smaller animal. Recessive traits can hide for many generations. There was a sabino (pinto) horse study that took Brown horses and inbred, and in just a few generations produced maximum sabinos (whites). Most people that buy them to use for training don't want them. They tend to stand out in the field which leads them to be preyed upon by ariel predators at a higher number. Its really up to the buyer. These aren't meat rabbits they are running rabbits. They are used to train beagles. They are very similar to a wild rabbit. A meat rabbit will not last in a training pen. They don't have the stamina in a chase. |
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Post by duff on Jun 28, 2014 10:04:30 GMT -5
dog's got to eat too.
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Post by duff on Jun 28, 2014 10:05:15 GMT -5
I got a c- in college level genetics....I! That good, eh? I think so...it was a long time ago and I really really really hated that course! Forgot most of it as soon as I was out of class that night! |
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Post by drs on Jun 28, 2014 10:35:16 GMT -5
I got a c- in college level genetics....I say sell em all or run them! I received an "A" in College level Genetics, but around 50% received a "C". Right now I am studying this gene study "MTHFR" that affects us Humans. Very interesting!! ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MTHFR |
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Post by span870 on Jun 28, 2014 10:56:56 GMT -5
I got a c- in college level genetics....I say sell em all or run them! I received an "A" in College level Genetics, but around 50% received a "C". Right now I am studying this gene study "MTHFR" that affects us Humans. Very interesting!! ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MTHFRSwitch to rabbit genetics and we'll split the profits. |
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Post by tenring on Jun 28, 2014 12:53:18 GMT -5
Looks like studying genetics really is a MTHFR :-)
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Post by span870 on Jun 28, 2014 15:33:25 GMT -5
You beat me to it. Was thinking the same. My buddy that farms the Angus cattle was explaining to me using BB Bb. I'm still confused on that one. Keep thinking back to school sitting in biology arguing that no one will ever need this.
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Post by pigeonflier on Jun 28, 2014 22:12:27 GMT -5
Any serious breeders of any animal knows that inbreeding is a MUST! I know to the average person it sounds bad,, but certain traits can only be brought about by inbreeding. In no way, shape, or form do I understand the genetic part of it all, but certain times it is a must, or you would need 10 times the amount of breeding stock to produce certain offspring. Say for instance pigeons and colors. I belong to another forum that is all about pigeons and there was just this sort of discussion on there about inbreeding and getting certain colors. It is far above and over my head for me to understand it all,, but I am going to copy and paste a few words of it.
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Post by pigeonflier on Jun 28, 2014 22:25:17 GMT -5
try o get a grip on this!!!
general rule of thumb is that inbreeding can be done to a max of 3 to 4 cross overs to remain safe. Otherwise weaknesses and deformities like web footing can start to appear.
Now we're talking about 3 to 4 cross overs withing their entire genetic history (of relatively recent genetic history)
So if you have 2 imported show birds, from different breeders and different countries even the you can in breed or line breed siblings, or children with parents/grand parents etc without visible consequence - and this is in fact necessary to retain recessive traits - otherwise you will need 10 times the amount of birds in you breeding program and a lot of recessive features will be impossible to include in your loft.
Important is to keep good breeding records and make sure you keep track of the bloodlines.
More important question than all this is - do you want more birds? Do you have space for more birds? And can you keep up with stopping the reproduction of more birds? 2 becomes 4 becomes 20 pretty quickly and if they all come from the same parents you will indeed have problems.
If this is a wild pair of siblings, the chances that their parents were related is quite slim. So this pair of eggs should not have problems if you do intend to keep them
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Post by pigeonflier on Jun 28, 2014 22:28:13 GMT -5
The first is correct. In breeding is never a good thing. It always brings out the worst traits. Start with good quality pure bred stock. At one time or another everything has been inbred to get to where we are today with all the animals we have in this world!! To top it off,, even I have been accused of my bad traits are a result of it!!! |
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