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Post by boonechaser on Jan 5, 2014 0:34:51 GMT -5
I would agree that if you aren't seeing does in your area. THEN QUIT SHOOTING DOES. The whole thought process "if I don't shoot it the neighbor will" is flawed. If you shoot a doe , it or her 2 offspring will not be on your property come next year. (100% of the time)
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Post by drs on Jan 5, 2014 6:07:40 GMT -5
Ok, lets stop and smell the huge downturn in development since 2008. This idea of habitat reduction is just plain ignorant.The breeders have been all shot up so much so that the ones left can't replenish the herd, it's just that simple. The rub is, as hunters we've been told season after season there isn't enough deer to justify liberal tags, the hunter waited. When the tags became liberal we thought, they're more deer and shooting more wouldn't hurt the recovery since we wouldn't get the tags if it hurt the recovery. Wrong-O, we've been sold out and need to wake up, the dnr has been compromised. Stop shooting the does. Save some money. Crummy party's over. Sorry to have to disagree with your statement on habitat. But in reality habitat IS shrinking, not only in Indiana but other Midwest States as well. Case-in-point your HWY 69 took away several acres of valuable habitat and farmlands. Developments are most likely to "spring-up" in and around the new highway. Also, in addition to roads, housing development and other developments have/will take out more habitat in coming years. I personally lost several hunting areas, in Indiana, when I was an Indiana Resident. As I pointed out in my post, this shrinking habitat will allow more Deer and other game animals to become more visible to Hunters. As far as the IDNR is concerned, I agree with you that liberal bag limits on Deer along with allowing the unlimited & "Bonus" harvesting of Doe is counter productive and this liberal harvesting on Doe takes a toll on the overall "future" population of Deer. It might have been better if the IDNR would have allow the harvesting of only one Deer, of either sex, (in certain counties) per year, during the early 1980's, with the rest of the counties, being Buck only, until a study could be conducted to see if the harvesting of Doe would hurt the future population growth of Deer, in these counties. I can remember back in the 1990's or late 1980's one would have to "draw" a bonus permit for Doe during the regular firearm season, but this was in counties that had an excess population of Deer, but these counties also had more habitat and even more farms than today.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 5, 2014 7:47:20 GMT -5
I would agree that if you aren't seeing does in your area. THEN QUIT SHOOTING DOES. The whole thought process "if I don't shoot it the neighbor will" is flawed. If you shoot a doe , it or her 2 offspring will not be on your property come next year. (100% of the time) So very true.... The IDNR sets the county limits and that doesn't mean that we have to fill those limits in our own area. The DNR's deer reduction plan seems to be working and a number of people wont like it as they are used to seeing a lot of deer every time out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 9:38:16 GMT -5
The bag limits have never meant SQUAT to me (other than the one buck limit, of course). The fact is I have never and will never kill more than two deer in a season. I have not killed a doe for 3 years. My family just can't eat much more than a deer a year. I always have deer meat left over from the previous year. I always gauge the deer sightings at the properties I hunt and between myself, my lease partner, and our family members who hunt, we determine how many does can be taken, that usually means I let ALL does walk. If my daughter or my buddy's daughters take a doe early, I'm certainly not going to shoot any does. People just have to use common sense. Especially if you hunt smallish properties like I do. So far, I have not suffered from any "bad years" where deer sightings are way down...but then, I take a pretty conservative approach with harvests. I guess that makes me a bad teammate for the deer contest!
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Post by duff on Jan 5, 2014 9:56:07 GMT -5
I would agree that if you aren't seeing does in your area. THEN QUIT SHOOTING DOES. The whole thought process "if I don't shoot it the neighbor will" is flawed. If you shoot a doe , it or her 2 offspring will not be on your property come next year. (100% of the time) Agree 100%. I have some friends that will shoot a small buck and does because he JUST KNOWs the neighbor will shoot it if he doesn't. When they tell me that is why they shoot a particular deer, I tell them they are the neighbors...I have never felt the need to kill a deer because I was afraid the next guy would shoot it. Just not logical to me, I hunt for my own reasons and its not to beat the neighbor. A deer can and does survive hunting season...if you pass a deer it has a pretty good chance it will be around next year.
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Post by taxind on Jan 5, 2014 10:30:06 GMT -5
Late season is working, Friend shot a doe Friday that had triplets about half term. One shot killed 4 deer and we wonder why we aren't seeing the number of deer we think we should !!!
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Post by tenring on Jan 5, 2014 10:45:12 GMT -5
Yup, and with a mini blizzard on it's way, and possible killer chill factor temps, how many of those fawns will wind up on a coyotes dinner plate ?
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Post by freedomhunter on Jan 5, 2014 11:20:39 GMT -5
considering it will get worse next few years (get ready), maybe go back to one antlerless statewide?
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Post by drs on Jan 5, 2014 11:27:36 GMT -5
considering it will get worse next few years (get ready), maybe go back to one antlerless statewide? Or one Buck only, unless antlerless harvest goes by a quota draw, in some counties.
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Post by jackryan on Jan 5, 2014 19:53:21 GMT -5
I wish I could change my screen name to Nostradamus.
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Post by drs on Jan 6, 2014 5:06:12 GMT -5
The bag limits have never meant SQUAT to me (other than the one buck limit, of course). The fact is I have never and will never kill more than two deer in a season. I have not killed a doe for 3 years. My family just can't eat much more than a deer a year. I always have deer meat left over from the previous year. I always gauge the deer sightings at the properties I hunt and between myself, my lease partner, and our family members who hunt, we determine how many does can be taken, that usually means I let ALL does walk. If my daughter or my buddy's daughters take a doe early, I'm certainly not going to shoot any does. People just have to use common sense. Especially if you hunt smallish properties like I do. So far, I have not suffered from any "bad years" where deer sightings are way down...but then, I take a pretty conservative approach with harvests. I guess that makes me a bad teammate for the deer contest! You hold the same view as I do concerning Deer Hunting. I only harvest one Deer (Buck) per year, as my Brother and I are the only ones who enjoy venison, thus one will last us almost a year. Now IF the Doe population rises too high, on my 83 acre wooded property, then I will harvest a Doe usually during our 2-day M/L season, with the Buck harvest (?) coming in during our modern rifle season. The Farm, I use to hunt, in Western Kentucky, had an excess number of Doe so there I've taken several, over the years from 1991 to 2006 without it harming future population growth. Todate I have a good balance of Bucks to Doe on my property and also on surrounding properties as Neighbors feel the same as I do about the population balance & growth of the area Deer.
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Post by boonechaser on Jan 6, 2014 9:43:28 GMT -5
Don't see doom and gloom like some of you. Last few year's have been some of best hunting in my lifetime. We continue to see good number's of does and good quality buck's. Guess it just depends where you live and how hard your area's have been hit by EHD. I'm a strong advocate of micro managing your hunting area's. (It works) You can't do it yourself, but you might be surprised that a simple conversation with a few neighbor's may help your hunting a bunch.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 6, 2014 11:01:53 GMT -5
Four-five years ago when the DNR said that they had to reduce the herd I knew some folks would not be happy as we have become spoiled in seeing a bunch of deer every sit and we could be ultra selective on what buck to shoot and when to shoot any does, if we so desired. The DNR seem to be accomplishing their goal and have already backed off the gas pedal on bonus permits this last season on a good fourth of all of the Indiana counties. Bag limits, especially the 3 bonus counties, will help stabilize the herd. I don't think the DNR really wants to get back in the herd building business. But there will be some that will push this for all its worth to again try and shorten and move the gun season. We have had this length of gun season for a long, long time even in the herd building days so it is not the long season in the rut that is a cause of any herd reduction. The DNR can control the herd with number of bonus permits issued AND a cut back or a year or two cancellation of the "special antlerless season". I think ( I know I can get in trouble doing that )it was 5 or 6 years ago when Southern Pike and Northern Warrick got hit hard with EHD. It was like hunting in the 1970s all over again. I actually sat the stand 17 times in a row and never saw one deer. 4 or 5 times of those sits was on a food plot. The next year there was an improvement in numbers. Now we seem to have more deer than ever before and I had seen deer (most within shooting range) on every hunt this last season. We are on a 40 acre patch with hunters on three sides who will shoot anything. Fortunately two sides are stripper pit spoil banks that are tough to hunt. I believe that EHD, the increased amount of coyotes, and a too liberal bonus permits in some areas has a very significant impact on the number of deer in a given area. The DNR can not micro-manage and sets limits by counties. It can be feast or famine in one end of the county or the other. Plus, the DNR has no way of knowing which counties will be effected by EHD every year, since it is so spotty, when they set the bonus limits for counties, so some counties can get a double whammy of EHD and too many bonus permits. All in all I believe that the DNR is doing a pretty good job considering all the "bosses" that they have to please.
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Post by schall53 on Jan 6, 2014 11:13:02 GMT -5
Boonehunter, I am glad that your micro managing is working for you. The area up here is mostly open farm ground with anywhere from 5 to 50 acre woodlots. Now imagine the sections around you filled up with hunters that are only there during hunting season and reason that if the DNR says you can kill 8 bonus in the county there MUST be all kinds of deer to shoot. I have tried to talk to them with no luck. They say I don't know what I am talking about, even though I have been hunting this property for over 50 years, which is before most of them were born. I think this is why when you start talking about all the deer you think are in the state it hits a nerve in me. The only reason in my way of thinking for St. Joseph Co. being an 8 is the number of deer vehicle crashes. This county has a very high population with South Bend, Mishawaka, Osceola, and Granger, probably 10 times more cars on the road than most counties. NOT 10 TIMES MORE DEER.
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Post by drs on Jan 6, 2014 11:27:05 GMT -5
Woody, do you recall back in the late '60's either around '68 or '69 when Crane closed the Deer Hunts, due to an outbreak of EHD?? I remember they reopened the area, to Deer Hunting, in 1972. Seems like I read something about that EHD outbreak some years ago.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 6, 2014 11:55:27 GMT -5
Woody, do you recall back in the late '60's either around '68 or '69 when Crane closed the Deer Hunts, due to an outbreak of EHD?? I remember they reopened the area, to Deer Hunting, in 1972. Seems like I read something about that EHD outbreak some years ago. That was before my time. I had started deer hunting then but I never knew Crane existed for deer hunting. My area was hit by EHD way back in the early 80s and we found 13 dead ones in the 240 acres we were hunting. There were less deer that year but the rut was very intense. The next year you wouldn't have known there was a problem the previous year.
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Post by jjas on Jan 6, 2014 12:15:51 GMT -5
Washington County (where I do most of my hunting) was hit with EHD pretty hard a few years back too. Between that and a new Amish family that moved in (and shooting eveything that moved) there were a couple of lean years. But as time has passed, the numbers have rebounded.
Point being...I too questioned the DNR. I wondered why they didn't lower the bonus antlerless quotas. But in the end, the numbers rebounded (as deer are remarkable animals in that regard). This time, the DNR wants herd reduction. That's the goal. I don't dispute that many feel there are counties that are being hit too hard. But as has been pointed out, the bonus doe quota permits can be lowered and any county above a 3 can be lowered to a 3 and doing so effectively does away with the bonus antlerless season in those counties.
So there are triggers in place to manage the herd numbers without reg changes.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 6, 2014 12:28:39 GMT -5
".....I wondered why they didn't lower the bonus antler quotas."
You meant antlerless, right?
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 6, 2014 12:30:46 GMT -5
I questioned Chad on the lowering of permits following an EHD hit and he was of the opinion, and had facts to back it up, that the herd will bounce back in those locations..
It is much easier to manage a small herd than one who has grown too large..
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Post by jjas on Jan 6, 2014 12:32:45 GMT -5
".....I wondered why they didn't lower the bonus antler quotas." You meant antlerless, right? Good catch. I corrected it.... Thanks.
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