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Post by majyang on Dec 9, 2013 21:20:56 GMT -5
Ok, got into a discussion that kinda stumped me because I never gave any real thought to it... so i'm on here to ask the pros. The question posed was, if an antlered deer is a buck with at least 4 inches on one side and a antlerless deer is a doe, what then is a buck with less than 4 inches of ivory, i.e. a button buck or a spike.
My reply to which was, "its off limits". BUT that was just my gut response. So i'm stumped if that is the correct legal response??
(granted this is only my third season hunting) I've still yet to harvest a buck, ever... though I did miss (with my bow) a 6 pointer earlier in the season. Thanks all.
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Post by tony on Dec 9, 2013 21:28:28 GMT -5
anything with antlers less than 3" is considered antlerless for tagging purposes
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Post by meathunter79 on Dec 9, 2013 21:28:39 GMT -5
A buck is an antlered deer with atleast 1 antler 3 inches or longer...anything with less than 3 inches of antler can be tagged as a doe...
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Post by scrub-buster on Dec 9, 2013 21:30:00 GMT -5
Copy and pasted from the Deer Regulation page
"Antlered Deer
An antlered deer must have at least one antler that is at least 3 inches long."
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Post by majyang on Dec 9, 2013 22:03:00 GMT -5
anything with antlers less than 3" is considered antlerless for tagging purposes Guess my response didn't post so trying again. The given response so far is exactly why I was stumped. With OBR, (which I do support) one of it's intent is to ensure maturing bucks, have the opportunity to keep maturing. BUT if we're slaying yearling bucks, tagging them as antlerless (up to 8 in many counties) doesn't this have a more detrimental impact on the buck population??? And at an even more foundational level?? Not saying I have a better idea or that i'm opposed to current regs, just stating why I was stumped in the discussion I was having. |
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Post by mstr2175 on Dec 9, 2013 23:59:38 GMT -5
I'm really not sure but I'm just guessing. Maybe the dnr decided it was more fair to the hunter so there were no "accidents." What I mean is if someone had already tagged their buck but shot a button buck at a far distance thinking it was a doe. 3 inches is large enough to determine if it's a buck or a doe and is more valid for dnr to ascertain the hunters intent.
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Post by dbd870 on Dec 10, 2013 5:36:00 GMT -5
I shot a spike at about 120-125 yds. that was ~5" on one side 2-3 yrs ago about 10min into shooting hrs. The antler in the near side was missing and I did not see the one on the far side; I looked for bone in the scope before taking the shot and could not see it. This was with a VXIII 4.5-14X so not a junk scope. My point, this is a good rule as sometimes things just happen regardless of our best efforts.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Dec 10, 2013 6:45:31 GMT -5
I shot a spike at about 120-125 yds. that was ~5" on one side 2-3 yrs ago about 10min into shooting hrs. The antler in the near side was missing and I did not see the one on the far side; I looked for bone in the scope before taking the shot and could not see it. This was with a VXIII 4.5-14X so not a junk scope. My point, this is a good rule as sometimes things just happen regardless of our best efforts. Yup! BTDT 6 yrs. ago with a buck 50 yds. out, in thick sapling cover, & ears erect on opening day of firearms season when it came trotting down the hill with the sounds of chasing & grunting just above it on the same trail where I could not see the chasing buck. As always I scanned & strained thru my 3x9x40 Nikkon BDL before pulling the trigger to make sure it was the doe being chased. Bummer! She turned-out to be a 4" spike when I rolled her over to field-dress. |
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2013 6:47:49 GMT -5
Antlered and antlerless does not necessarily mean buck or doe.
You can kill a doe that is tagged as antlered and you can kill a Buck that is tagged as antler less.
I would like to see "male" and "female" tags that mean exactly that but I have a feeling I would be in the minority.
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Post by Russ Koon on Dec 10, 2013 13:07:09 GMT -5
swilk, I'd have to disagree on that rule. As pointed out above, the difficulty is already enough in discerning whether or not there is a legal antler.
The hunter would almost need to tranquilize the deer to inspect it thoroughly enough to be certain of its gender before killing it. I agree that the law as written doesn't strictly adhere to the intent, but basing laws on intent without consideration for practical application is an even worse mistake.
Be different if it was catch and release, but in hunting, we simply can't be perfectly sure of gender without killing first. So the law should first consider the hunter who tries to follow the intent, and make it easier for him to do so under real circumstances, rather than increasing the odds of making him an accidental poacher.
It's not a perfect solution either way, but I think the balance is proper the way it is.
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2013 15:35:11 GMT -5
I know I am in the (very small) minority on that one .....
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 10, 2013 17:03:07 GMT -5
I know I am in the (very small) minority on that one ..... Button bucks counting as bucks will result in a bunch of dead button bucks...... left in the woods |
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Post by boonechaser on Dec 10, 2013 21:14:49 GMT -5
Isn't way to know your not shooting button's is not shooting yearling's period. (Just say'n) No different to me than catching a 1/2 lbs. bass and taking it home and eating it. ( I don't do that either.)
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 10, 2013 21:56:58 GMT -5
Isn't way to know your not shooting button's is not shooting yearling's period. (Just say'n) No different to me than catching a 1/2 lbs. bass and taking it home and eating it. ( I don't do that either.) Some folks (especially newer hunters) can't readily tell whether a single deer is a yearling or not. If a yearling is with the doe it is fairly easy to tell the difference because there is a reference point. By itself? Not so much.. |
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Post by GS1 on Dec 10, 2013 22:07:07 GMT -5
Wonder what the average weights are for a button buck and 1 1/2 year old doe are by the time the antlerless season rolls around?
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Post by mstr2175 on Dec 10, 2013 22:07:07 GMT -5
Isn't way to know your not shooting button's is not shooting yearling's period. (Just say'n) No different to me than catching a 1/2 lbs. bass and taking it home and eating it. ( I don't do that either.) Some folks (especially newer hunters) can't readily tell whether a single deer is a yearling or not. If a yearling is with the doe it is fairly easy to tell the difference because there is a reference point. By itself? Not so much.. Agreed. I think size perception is hard to judge (more so unknown territory). If you have hunted a single spot many times and have seen a lot of deer in a certain area then you have an idea of what a deer, based on its size, might look like at that particular spot. On the other hand, if you are hunting public land or a new spot for the first time (which many people do) then you have to prepare yourself to judge accordingly. |
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