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Post by tynimiller on Jul 17, 2012 7:20:06 GMT -5
*cut off the r on deer (title)
With all these polls circulating it has caused me to desire some opinions on something which I know is a problem at least in my immediate area. Deer check-in stations doing terrible jobs of checking the hunter and the deer.
I 100% without a shadow of a doubt know numerous hunters (some are neighboring hunters) who double dip on tags, illegally use landowner tags or simply lie about the gender of the animal (YES THIS HAS HAPPENED!).
The gender thing is the most ridiculous because all it takes is the check-in station actually walking out to the deer and putting the tag on (which I was under the impression is how it should be done)...however there is at least two local stations where you just give them your transport tag and license, they fill in the state form and give you the tag. They never step foot outside, they never even ask you a question hardly...so unless you got people seeing a big rack in your truck and talking to you they never even lay eyes on the deer.
The other abuse is the double-dipping. This has become apparent more and more as I talk to local processors, fellow hunters (some offenders) and just listen to the swirling rumor mill. It seems to be common practice for some guys to kill a buck, tag it under their wife's name and then hit the road again for their own. I would think just simply making sure the person checking the deer in is who the harvesting hunter was would solve this problem. *This is a big issue on a neighboring farm to our property but it's one of those unless there is solid evidence or an admittance of guilt the CO's hand's are tied.
I realize this won't accomplish a change just curious if any of you feel the same.
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Post by swilk on Jul 17, 2012 7:31:36 GMT -5
Honestly, no.
Why should we put the burden of policing hunters on the shoulders of those running the check station ..... when we could/should be policing ourselves.
An eye witness goes a long way to helping DNR officials nail someone. If you see a guy check in a buck as a doe .... turn him in and assist the DNR in any way that will help them.
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Post by tynimiller on Jul 17, 2012 7:43:39 GMT -5
Oh believe me I agree, the businesses that are willing to check-in deer shouldn't be forced to "police" but at minimum they should be going to the deer IMO.
Also if I witnessed the buck checked in as a doe I would have said something in a heartbeat. Unfortunately it was after the fact story while at the processor later that day. They guys came in laughing and talking about how they got the check-in station good, one they used landowner tags on a friends farm (illegal) and two they just didn't put a sex down on the tag so the check-in checked it in as a doe....needless to say I was less than happy and contacted the CO later that night...but again he didn't have a eyewitness and didn't feel he had a case sadly.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 17, 2012 8:05:16 GMT -5
They are not required to go look/check the animal.
I've heard of some people that don't even take the animal to the check station. They just take thier tag the next day. Highly illegal but I guess they think that beats trying to keep the deer cool all night and drag it to the check station the next day.
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Post by goosepondmonster on Jul 17, 2012 8:08:51 GMT -5
The other abuse is the double-dipping. This has become apparent more and more as I talk to local processors, fellow hunters (some offenders) and just listen to the swirling rumor mill. It seems to be common practice for some guys to kill a buck, tag it under their wife's name and then hit the road again for their own. I would think just simply making sure the person checking the deer in is who the harvesting hunter was would solve this problem. It is my understanding that anyone can check in a deer for someone as long as the information of the person who harvested the deer is on the transport tag. |
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jul 17, 2012 8:13:22 GMT -5
Nope!
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 17, 2012 8:14:34 GMT -5
The other abuse is the double-dipping. This has become apparent more and more as I talk to local processors, fellow hunters (some offenders) and just listen to the swirling rumor mill. It seems to be common practice for some guys to kill a buck, tag it under their wife's name and then hit the road again for their own. I would think just simply making sure the person checking the deer in is who the harvesting hunter was would solve this problem. It is my understanding that anyone can check in a deer for someone as long as the information of the person who harvested the deer is on the transport tag. Yes, they can and take 48 hours to do it... |
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Jul 17, 2012 8:18:16 GMT -5
I complained about this last year. You could check in a goat and no one would no the difference. They still give you a tag and they dont come out to check at all. This is why the check in stations numbers are wrong and they cant get an accurate number on deer killed. (You can check in your buck as a doe, button buck as a doe or whatever). Why would you bother to check in a deer illegally? Because most guys take their deer to have the deer processed. You have to put a TAG on the deer to be accepted for processing.
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Post by tynimiller on Jul 17, 2012 9:02:31 GMT -5
The other abuse is the double-dipping. This has become apparent more and more as I talk to local processors, fellow hunters (some offenders) and just listen to the swirling rumor mill. It seems to be common practice for some guys to kill a buck, tag it under their wife's name and then hit the road again for their own. I would think just simply making sure the person checking the deer in is who the harvesting hunter was would solve this problem. It is my understanding that anyone can check in a deer for someone as long as the information of the person who harvested the deer is on the transport tag. That's true and in my opinion just stupid...it almost encourages tag sharing, again though not being present isn't illegal though currently. |
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Post by tynimiller on Jul 17, 2012 9:05:11 GMT -5
I complained about this last year. You could check in a goat and no one would no the difference. They still give you a tag and they dont come out to check at all. This is why the check in stations numbers are wrong and they cant get an accurate number on deer killed. (You can check in your buck as a doe, button buck as a doe or whatever). Why would you bother to check in a deer illegally? Because most guys take their deer to have the deer processed. You have to put a TAG on the deer to be accepted for processing. Our real good processing friend from just accross the MI border would always complain about guys in MI and IN that he knew were double tagging...they'd bring in two bucks (IN) in a few weeks sometimes the same day and beat around the bush on one of them as far as harvest story. He couldn't do a thing though, they had a tag on them...just sad IMO how some hunters are just backhanded. |
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 17, 2012 10:00:19 GMT -5
As we will now have ECheck the question is moot.
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Jul 17, 2012 10:10:37 GMT -5
We have CheckIN and Check in stations. They are not eliminating the Check in sites.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 17, 2012 10:14:01 GMT -5
We have CheckIN and Check in stations. They are not eliminated the Check in sites. True..... Not everyone has a computer/internet access... Until they make it phone AND PC check in I'm guessing that the check stations will stay open... |
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Post by Russ Koon on Jul 17, 2012 10:32:48 GMT -5
No, I don't think there would be enough benefit in catching or discouraging any misdoings to justify the downsides of such extra regulation and inspection.
There have always been people skirting the reg's and getting away with it, and will probably always be. We can't have the cops watching our every move in any aspect of life, and hunting, by it's very nature, is less policeable than most activities.
Those who think they are getting away with something really aren't, of course, as they are cheating themselves out of the ability to tell the truth about their achievement, and be proud of it. But if they don't already see that, trying to catch them and correct their actions will always be a thankless job with little results for the efforts expended.
The power of peer pressure is the best answer to most such scofflaws. When you hear about such illegal check-ins, do you speak up about it, or just let it slide to avoid being that guy who comes off as being the only goodie-two-shoes in the camp or the club or the workplace?
Sometimes it's not easy to support doing stuff the right way in some environments, and I've been guilty too of letting it go by without speaking out, but when we do, we're aiding and abetting, and teaching the next generation to do the same, by example.
We can help self-police our own ranks even without contacting officers or trying to gather evidence against offenders, just by making sure that others involved or witnessing our reactions are made to know how we feel about the cheating ways of the offenders.
Such cheating is supported when they can tell their buddies about what they did and share a laugh about how they outsmarted the CO or the system. If a few of those buddies point out that it doesn't take much skill or intelligence to cheat and "win", their pleasure will be diminished greatly and the incentive for repeating such actions will as well.
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Post by oldhoyt on Jul 17, 2012 10:40:06 GMT -5
I see that minimal training or instruction has some value. I have been checked by good and bad "checkers" at the same location.
I don't feel that being a check station should be a bothersome task for the business owner though.
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Post by tynimiller on Jul 17, 2012 10:52:27 GMT -5
No, I don't think there would be enough benefit in catching or discouraging any misdoings to justify the downsides of such extra regulation and inspection. There have always been people skirting the reg's and getting away with it, and will probably always be. We can't have the cops watching our every move in any aspect of life, and hunting, by it's very nature, is less policeable than most activities. Those who think they are getting away with something really aren't, of course, as they are cheating themselves out of the ability to tell the truth about their achievement, and be proud of it. But if they don't already see that, trying to catch them and correct their actions will always be a thankless job with little results for the efforts expended. The power of peer pressure is the best answer to most such scofflaws. When you hear about such illegal check-ins, do you speak up about it, or just let it slide to avoid being that guy who comes off as being the only goodie-two-shoes in the camp or the club or the workplace? Sometimes it's not easy to support doing stuff the right way in some environments, and I've been guilty too of letting it go by without speaking out, but when we do, we're aiding and abetting, and teaching the next generation to do the same, by example. We can help self-police our own ranks even without contacting officers or trying to gather evidence against offenders, just by making sure that others involved or witnessing our reactions are made to know how we feel about the cheating ways of the offenders. Such cheating is supported when they can tell their buddies about what they did and share a laugh about how they outsmarted the CO or the system. If a few of those buddies point out that it doesn't take much skill or intelligence to cheat and "win", their pleasure will be diminished greatly and the incentive for repeating such actions will as well. Russ this post was spot on! My frustration just boils over sometimes, and like you said we do need to commend those who do things right and "police" those who don't from within our ranks... appreciate those who have shared their thoughts more than just clicking on a vote. Also don't get me started on the echeckin system....I completely 100% disagree with it but that is just my opinion and a slightly different topic than this one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 11:45:06 GMT -5
If you think it's bad now, just wait for more automated checking is in place. The easier it gets the more abuse will occur.
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Post by tynimiller on Jul 17, 2012 12:28:25 GMT -5
If you think it's bad now, just wait for more automated checking is in place. The easier it gets the more abuse will occur. I know...dreading it for sure! |
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Post by Boilermaker on Jul 17, 2012 12:57:16 GMT -5
The one place I've taken deer it's about impossible to cheat the system. It's a processor and check-in station combined. They won't tag the deer until you bring it in to the processing center and drag it to where they start their butchering. Then they check the sex and put the tag on themselves after getting all of the hunter's information. Granted, this doesn't work for people who only bring in deer to check them in and process themselves.
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 17, 2012 13:20:10 GMT -5
We have CheckIN and Check in stations. They are not eliminated the Check in sites. True..... Not everyone has a computer/internet access... Until they make it phone AND PC check in I'm guessing that the check stations will stay open... I'll bet they will become the minority way very quickly |
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