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Post by voodoofire1 on Jul 24, 2012 7:27:28 GMT -5
Russ Koon.... In 1995, I was in my 15' ladder stand along a private field edge, 3 individuals ,who did not have permission on this property entered a fencerow 150 yds away, pinpointed me by my hunter orange and commence firing upon me, I jumped from the stand and took cover behind the tree, I was not injured or shot.....But every time I put on hunter orange, that incident is in my mind.........There are some stupid people out there and what we are afraid of happening on accident will one day, happen on purpose...........it's only a matter of time...........
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 7:43:10 GMT -5
A one sided piece of cloth is not a blind. Check with the CO. According to the way the rule is worded any particular CO could see it differently. Sec. 7.6. "Ground blind" means a structure or visual screen of any type that is located on or within four (4) feet of the ground that includes manmade or synthetic materials and results in concealing a hunter so that the hunter orange worn by the hunter may not be visible from one (1) or more directions. (Natural Resources Commission; 312 IAC 9-1-7.6; filed Dec 1, 2011, 4:01 p.m.: 20111228-IR-312110101FRA)Not to far of a stretch to define a single piece of burlap or netting strung between two trees as a ground blind. It is a man made piece of material. It is a visual screen. It would hinder the visibility of the hunter worn orange in one or more directions. How would it not fit the definition of ground blind?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 8:15:32 GMT -5
That would depend on the size. The turkey screens are about 24" high or so and would not totally conceal. Especially if you have a HO cap on.
I don't get so many trying to find a loophole in HO laws. Deer don't care. Just look at any states harvest logs.
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Post by tenring on Jul 24, 2012 8:27:20 GMT -5
Hmmmm, "visual screen"!
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 8:29:07 GMT -5
Im not trying to find a loophole .... I am pointing out the fact that all these grey areas makes the ultimate decision come down to an officers opinion/interpretation of the law.
Who said anything about a 24" turkey blind? Russ mentioned camo netting strung between two trees. You posted that a one sided piece of cloth is not a blind. I posted that an officer could easily consider a one sided piece of cloth as a blind.
Even that 24" turkey blind could be considered a ground blind .... sit/lay low enough to conceal your orange and I cant see how it wouldnt meet the criteria as written.
You seem to think we live in a black and white world ..... we dont.
So Ill ask again .... how is a one sided piece of cloth not a ground blind? It is man made. It is within 4' of the ground. It is a visual screen. It conceals the hunter and makes the hunter orange not visible from one or more directions.
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Post by ff1126 on Jul 24, 2012 9:02:53 GMT -5
I can see the pros and cons of the law. The thing that I don't like is I have several box blinds that are at ground level. After putting them up, I have noticed the trespassing has stopped. I believe its due to them not knowing if we are setting in them or not!! With the Orange hanging or not, its a matter of its safe to come on over the fence now or not!! Kind of like a Green light, Red Light!!
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 9:05:14 GMT -5
Easily solved ... leave the orange on there permanently.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 9:21:48 GMT -5
Wilk. You like to argue. The law is clear. It says conceal. That would be totally. Its not safe to do so, nor needed to kill a deer.
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 9:45:47 GMT -5
Timex - You like to argue. The law is clear. It says conceal. A single piece of material strung between two trees that conceals a hunters orange from one or more directions could be considered a ground blind.
You did add that "totally" part in there .... do you even realize when you do things like that? Add bits and pieces to the conversation that dont really exist in order to try and strengthen whatever point you are trying to make?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 10:41:28 GMT -5
It's really simple Wilk. The whole idea is to be seen from any direction. When you do anything else, your trying to circumvent the law. When you do that you might well be found in violation
Yes I said totally. A single piece of.cloth or mesh won't conceal you permanently in most cases unless your trying to completely hide, thus not being lawful. If you rig it just to hide some movement of the lower body. No violation.
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 11:44:44 GMT -5
The law does not say totally. It does not say permanently.
It does say "results in concealing a hunter so that the hunter orange worn by the hunter may not be visible from one (1) or more directions."
You keep adding things that arent in the conversation. Turkey screens. 24". Totally. Permanently. Hiding lower body. Circumvent the law.
Originally you said that a one sided piece of cloth is not a blind. I simply pointed out that it could be .....
And you are right ..... it is really simple.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 24, 2012 12:29:27 GMT -5
The law does not say totally. It does not say permanently. It does say "results in concealing a hunter so that the hunter orange worn by the hunter may not be visible from one (1) or more directions."You keep adding things that arent in the conversation. Turkey screens. 24". Totally. Permanently. Hiding lower body. Circumvent the law. Originally you said that a one sided piece of cloth is not a blind. I simply pointed out that it could be ..... And you are right ..... it is really simple. Not to butt in ...but if that hunter's oranged capped head is above that screen blind I'd say he is good to go.... vest? No..
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 12:34:38 GMT -5
I agree.
But if the hunter orange (hat/vest/shirt/coat) were to be obstructed from at least one direction he would need to hang orange on it to be in compliance.
That is why I say it "could" be. All depends on how it is used.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 13:00:59 GMT -5
The law does not say totally. It does not say permanently. It does say "results in concealing a hunter so that the hunter orange worn by the hunter may not be visible from one (1) or more directions."You keep adding things that arent in the conversation. Turkey screens. 24". Totally. Permanently. Hiding lower body. Circumvent the law. Originally you said that a one sided piece of cloth is not a blind. I simply pointed out that it could be ..... And you are right ..... it is really simple. Not to butt in ...but if that hunter's oranged capped head is above that screen blind I'd say he is good to go.... vest? No.. Exactly. Well said. Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 13:05:47 GMT -5
I agree. But if the hunter orange (hat/vest/shirt/coat) were to be obstructed from at least one direction he would need to hang orange on it to be in compliance. That is why I say it "could" be. All depends on how it is used. Most hunters that are actually awake want to be able to see while they are hunting. I can't think of anyway that uh out can use a single piece of cloth in a way to conceal the hunter so as you could be seen and still see to hunt. Yeah I added common sense to what you posted.
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 14:33:44 GMT -5
lol ... common sense?? You? haha!!
Anyway, you are the one who said that a piece of cloth is not a blind. I merely pointed out that it could in fact be considered a blind depending on how it was used. Now you want to change your story and act like you never said it.
I can think of two ways a piece of cloth could be a blind.
1. A hunter is using it as a backdrop so that critters behind him can not see him. Would need orange to comply with the rule.
2. A hunter is behind the cloth and sees an approaching critter. He ducks his head down below the blind until the critter gets closer. Would need orange to comply with the rule.
Two enough for you or would you prefer I think of more? Would be easy to do .... mesh that can be seen through. A small viewing hole. The scenarois are many.
Common sense .... you .... thats a good one! ;D
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 24, 2012 15:29:46 GMT -5
You all need to cool it..
I worked 6 hours in 98 degree heat and I am not in the best if moods.
OK??
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Post by swilk on Jul 24, 2012 18:26:44 GMT -5
I helped set trusses on my addition yesterday.....after 8 hours I was beginning to question my sanity for muttering the words "do you guys need an extra set of hands?"
My last post on this......sorry.
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Post by thecommissioner on Jul 24, 2012 22:39:46 GMT -5
My ground blinds are permanent structures, 4'x4'x8' tall. There are windows on three of the four sides. The back side holds the door. No one, even a deer, can tell if the blind is occupied if approaching from the back. If the deer is smart enough to figure that out, he gets a pass. If I get shot because someone didn't see my hunter orange, it is because they deliberately fired a deadly weapon at a permanent structure. That is a problem bigger than any 'game law.' If it wasn't deliberate, then I doubt the shooter even knew the blind was there in the first place or it was a ricochet. Call it a 'lotto' shot. I'll take those kinds of chances in the woods as long as the Nanny State isn't empowered to tell me how to decorate my private property.
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