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Post by chicobrownbear on Nov 17, 2005 15:00:26 GMT -5
Just got this in a wild bulletin email from the state. Proposed rule changes to the hunting regulations have been drafted and there will be a public meeting at Atturbury for comments. The one that caught my attention was for the proposed rule change on muzzle loading firearms. If any of you have a modern in line, it can be argued that by taking out the breech plug, you could feasibly load it from the rear. Are they going to outlaw my T/C 209x50? www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/about/WAP%20Rule%20Proposals%20Public%202005.pdf |
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Post by jkd on Nov 17, 2005 15:17:49 GMT -5
Chico,
Will definitely check out the pdf...
I would not think rear-end loading would even be safe, not to mention impractical... I can just see getting out the plug wrench to reload... yeah, right... big speed advantage there... LOL
KD
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Post by jkd on Nov 17, 2005 15:26:59 GMT -5
Here's the proposed new language...
312 IAC 9-3-3 Hunting deer by firearms
(3) A muzzle loading gun must be .44 caliber or larger, loaded with a bullet at least .357 inch or larger. A muzzle loading handgun must be single shot, .50 caliber or larger, loaded with bullets at least .44 caliber and have a barrel at least twelve (12) inches long. The length of a muzzle loading handgun barrel is determined by measuring from the base of the breech plug, excluding tangs and other projections, to the end of the barrel, including the muzzle crown. A muzzle loading firearm gun must be capable of being loaded only from the muzzle, including both powder and bullet.
A muzzle loading firearm gun may be possessed in the field outside lawful shooting hours only
if:
(A) for percussion firearms, the cap or primer is removed from the nipple or primer
adapter; or
(B) for flintlock firearms, the pan is not primed.
(4) Over-and-under combination rifle-shotguns are prohibited.
------------------------
Are there any breech-loader muzzleloaders on the market...?
KD
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Post by chicobrownbear on Nov 17, 2005 15:35:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I know its a ludicrous proposition to knowledgable outdoorsmen, but stranger things have happened in a court of law.
There are the so called BPCR's, or black powder cartridge rifles that are breech loaders. Perhaps someone found a loophole big enough for a Sharps rifle.
Breech loading an inline would be an LOL proposition, but do judges hunt?
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Post by drs on Nov 17, 2005 15:40:42 GMT -5
Just got this in a wild bulletin email from the state. Proposed rule changes to the hunting regulations have been drafted and there will be a public meeting at Atturbury for comments. The one that caught my attention was for the proposed rule change on muzzle loading firearms. If any of you have a modern in line, it can be argued that by taking out the breech plug, you could feasibly load it from the rear. Are they going to outlaw my T/C 209x50? www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/about/WAP%20Rule%20Proposals%20Public%202005.pdfSounds like more STUPID rules, by individuals that KNOW NOTHING about wildlife conservation or Hunting. Sounds like they just want to ban hunting altogether. I can't believe they would think a Hunter would go to the trouble of removing the breech plug and try to reload. Not only would it be slower than the usual way but also VERY DANGERIOUS. ~ WHO THINKS UP THESE RULES ~?  |
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 17, 2005 19:34:48 GMT -5
............. Are there any breech-loader muzzleloaders on the market...? KD I have never heard of such an animal. Breech loading muzzleloader is a contradiction in terms.. |
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Post by wolfhound on Nov 17, 2005 19:44:56 GMT -5
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 17, 2005 19:47:17 GMT -5
I thought maybe one of our Muzzlelaoder experts might chime in here. Looks like the IDNR is heading this one off at the pass. Thanks Wolfhound.. |
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Post by indianagooseman on Nov 17, 2005 20:38:18 GMT -5
Any ideas on how we can make sure that our Encores and the like stay legal?
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Post by gundude on Nov 18, 2005 7:14:11 GMT -5
GUYS ,
I'm gonna try and be as nice as I can here but you ALL need to WAKE up!
First of all when it comes to the DNR and Kyle Hupfer, HE IS ONE OF US! He is about as close to being ANTI-HUNTING as I am to being a Space Shuttle pilot!
Secondly, ALL of your guns are still legal and will remain that way provided you don't "convert" them!. If you change the breech so you can load from the rear then it isn't a MUZZLE LOADER now is it?
Thirdly, IF you are truly concerned about this matter, then use some tact when you approach this issue. Shooting off angry E-mails to the DNR will get you nowhere quick. Base your argument in facts AND then back that up by attending the public meetings and voicing your opinions in a logical manner. If your not willing to do that, then you get what you deserve and as far as I am concerned you have forfeited your right to complain about the end decision as you you did nothing to effect it!
Please don't get me wrong here, Hupfer is human and I am sure he will make some mistakes ( he is human) but he a logical man and will listen to facts and base his decisions on those facts. There is a lot that could be done for the GOOD of hunting here in the State of Indiana IF we would get behind the DNR and work with them instead of just trashing them with misguided facts.
< gundude steps down from his much worn out soapbox>
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Post by wolfhound on Nov 18, 2005 7:17:32 GMT -5
Should be fine as is. That system uses a new breechplug that has a hole all the way through it. A regular breechplug is such that you can only load the primer into it. The fact that every inline made today has a removable breechplug would make them all illegal if they are considering a removable breechplug as able to load from the rear. I think it's to prevent what I showed in the link above. If they went after removable breechplugs everyone would be snapping up Thunderhawks and Firehawks.  |
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Post by drs on Nov 18, 2005 7:44:44 GMT -5
Now this WOULD be a Breech loader! Might be what the State is talking about.  |
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Post by drs on Nov 18, 2005 7:56:59 GMT -5
GUYS ,
I'm gonna try and be as nice as I can here but you ALL need to WAKE up!First of all when it comes to the DNR and Kyle Hupfer, HE IS ONE OF US! He is about as close to being ANTI-HUNTING as I am to being a Space Shuttle pilot! Secondly, ALL of your guns are still legal and will remain that way provided you don't "convert" them!. If you change the breech so you can load from the rear then it isn't a MUZZLE LOADER now is it? Thirdly, IF you are truly concerned about this matter, then use some tact when you approach this issue. Shooting off angry E-mails to the DNR will get you nowhere quick. Base your argument in facts AND then back that up by attending the public meetings and voicing your opinions in a logical manner. If your not willing to do that, then you get what you deserve and as far as I am concerned you have forfeited your right to complain about the end decision as you you did nothing to effect it! Please don't get me wrong here, Hupfer is human and I am sure he will make some mistakes ( he is human) but he a logical man and will listen to facts and base his decisions on those facts. There is a lot that could be done for the GOOD of hunting here in the State of Indiana IF we would get behind the DNR and work with them instead of just trashing them with misguided facts. < gundude steps down from his much worn out soapbox> I, personally, woke up years ago, and now do MOST of my Deer Hunting in Kentucky! As for the "New" Director, Kyle Hupfer, he hasn't been director long enough to determine what type of job he will do. As I said in an earlier post, I've written the IDNR on various rullings and policies, with little return or consideration. About the only thing they took me up on was extending the check-in period to 48 hours, and this took a PHONE CALL not an e-mail. If you guys, do write the IDNR PLEASE be nice and to-the-point with your letters. |
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Post by gundude on Nov 18, 2005 7:59:48 GMT -5
Now this WOULD be a Breech loader! Might be what the State is talking about. More than likely David, this is what they are talking about. We need to use a little logic here folks. The DNR sent out a plea for us to get out there and wack some DOES. Now do you think they want to turn around and elliminate the very weapon we all use to do that?. Boil it down to the basics. I bet you see some other changes in the near future that will bring a smile to your face.......... That is if you get on the team and speak up! |
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Post by birddog on Nov 18, 2005 8:03:34 GMT -5
First of all when it comes to the DNR and Kyle Hupfer, HE IS ONE OF US!
The above statement I took from a previous post and would like to know just HOW CLOSE TO ONE OF US IS HE???
I've sent this guy e-mail after e-mail and being very nice in what I have said and to this date have had NO REPLY from him or anyone at the DNR about issues that are very important to me as well as the hunting community as a whole..so until I hear from him PERSONNALLY or from someone with some authority with in the IDNR he's no different than the rest of them and I think the rest of them are jerks!!!!!!
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Post by kevin1 on Nov 18, 2005 8:03:38 GMT -5
Now this WOULD be a Breech loader! Might be what the State is talking about. All they've done is reinvent the wheel , the blackpowder cartridge has existed since the wild west days . It's no longer a muzzleloader by law anyway . |
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Post by gundude on Nov 18, 2005 8:20:12 GMT -5
First of all when it comes to the DNR and Kyle Hupfer, HE IS ONE OF US! The above statement I took from a previous post and would like to know just HOW CLOSE TO ONE OF US IS HE??? I've sent this guy e-mail after e-mail and being very nice in what I have said and to this date have had NO REPLY from him or anyone at the DNR about issues that are very important to me as well as the hunting community as a whole..so until I hear from him PERSONALLY or from someone with some authority with in the IDNR he's no different than the rest of them and I think the rest of them are jerks!!!!!! AND that my friend is why you never hear from him. I hear from him all the time as do many others. Now keep in mind he cant PERSONALLY respond to everyone that calls or writes that office.......... Think about it. How many calls, letters and phone calls do you think they get a day? Do you want some guy answering every call he gets or working on taking care of business..... I dont need a PR guy. I need someone willing to step up to the plate and get the job done no matter what! THAT is what he is doing! AGAIN this coming from a guy that was looking for any reason to bust his chops and he has proved me wrong! The guy is working his butt off and if you DO CALL him with an intelligent logical question based on facts, you will hear back from him. |
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Post by drs on Nov 18, 2005 10:02:48 GMT -5
Now this WOULD be a Breech loader! Might be what the State is talking about. More than likely David, this is what they are talking about. We need to use a little logic here folks. The DNR sent out a plea for us to get out there and wack some DOES. Now do you think they want to turn around and elliminate the very weapon we all use to do that?. Boil it down to the basics. I bet you see some other changes in the near future that will bring a smile to your face.......... That is if you get on the team and speak up! We shall see then, and yes I've spoken, but as far as a "Team" goes, I don't know, it seems like everyone is complacent, and are like sheep....follow the leader and do what you are told and ask no questions, suggest no ideas......  |
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Post by gundude on Nov 18, 2005 10:13:12 GMT -5
More than likely David, this is what they are talking about. We need to use a little logic here folks. The DNR sent out a plea for us to get out there and wack some DOES. Now do you think they want to turn around and eliminate the very weapon we all use to do that?. Boil it down to the basics. I bet you see some other changes in the near future that will bring a smile to your face.......... That is if you get on the team and speak up! We shall see then, and yes I've spoken, but as far as a "Team" goes, I don't know, it seems like everyone is complacent, and are like sheep....follow the leader and do what you are told and ask no questions, suggest no ideas...... David you and I have kind of talked about this before. Rest assured that I have told Kyle to his face that I will support him and I have also told him that when and if he does something really stupid I'll be the first one to jump down his throat about it. His reply? " fair enough"! BTW, I follow no ,one because they are the "leader". I could care less about that kind of crap. You are right about the SHEEP but I am not one of them by a long shot! If the "leader" does something right he should be commended for it. If he screws up then he needs to know about that too. It comes with the job. |
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Post by drs on Nov 18, 2005 11:34:02 GMT -5
Gundude, I am just curious; but do you work for the IDNR? Your post suggest that either you are an employee or have some strong connections in that department? Just Curious, that's all. |
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