|
Post by salt on Oct 12, 2011 14:43:10 GMT -5
Hate to say it, but no he did not do everything he could have to recover the deer. The rotten mess was found 40 yards from the last visual contact. A good track dog would have found the deer within 30 minutes of tracking. Imo, no excuse for not calling one in. Not that I totally disagree with you timex, but are these dog tracking services free? Are these guys with these dogs offering them up at no charge? Or is this a business opportunity. There is no doubt that having the use of a dog would have increased the likelihood of finding this deer before it spoiled. But, there is no gaurantee that the hunter had the money to pay for a dog tracking service.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 14:54:07 GMT -5
No, It's not free. Nobody gives away gas or tires or dog food. A fellow gives.up a day of time or at a minimum several hours. I know TIM works cheap, but deserves to be compensated.
The fellow may not have much money, don't know. But the deer is at the taxidermist and hell be buying a replacements cape. So, how much did he save?
|
|
|
Post by salt on Oct 12, 2011 16:27:59 GMT -5
No, It's not free. Nobody gives away gas or tires or dog food. A fellow gives.up a day of time or at a minimum several hours. I know TIM works cheap, but deserves to be compensated. The fellow may not have much money, don't know. But the deer is at the taxidermist and hell be buying a replacements cape. So, how much did he save? I wouldn't have expected the dog tracking business to be free. I don't think anyone would. Here is the difference between paying someone to track your deer with their dog and paying a taxidermist to mount it. I have only been fortunate to shoot one deer to which I decided to have mounted. I took my deer to the local taxidermist and asked him what his fees and terms were. He gave me a price and told me that I could pay some now, all now, or none now. He would start the work once I had paid 50% of the total amount owed and would give me the finished product when I paid the remaining balance. I am pretty sure it cost me around $350 total. So I left my deer with him and paid him as much as I could each month. Fortunately, I had paid the ballance off by the time it was finished which was about 8 months later. Had he told me that I needed to pay $350 that day, I would have been taking it home to do my own skull mount. I don't think you can say that if the guy has the money to get it mounted then he should have had the money to pay for a dog. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But, would you have been willing to work out the same type of deal where he could pay you for your services to track now or later? I wouldn't expect you to. I hope that I will never need to use a dog tracking service. If I do, I hope that I will have the cash availalbe at the time to pay for it. I just don't agree that someone can be told that they didn't do what was right etc because they didn't call in a dog. It is a luxury service in my opinion that not everyone is able to take advantage of.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Oct 12, 2011 16:46:00 GMT -5
I think what Timex is saying is the cost of a replacement cape would cost more than what he would have paid Tim Zoll to find the deer right away. Plus he would have the meat.
|
|
|
Post by gobblerstopper on Oct 12, 2011 16:51:43 GMT -5
Although the taxidermy bill is high, you do get your deer back. I would guess the dog still needs food, the truck needs gas and the guy gives a day up even if he don't find the deer?
It's an unfortunate situation and there are always coulda, shoulda and woulda's.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 17:09:39 GMT -5
The dog Tim has completes 85% of her tracks with a conclusion. On this particular track, with the deer laying 40 yards from the last known sign, it would have been found. No question about it. Unless it was an extreme distance from Tims house, the price would have been a donation. Now, he may have a payment plan, dont know?
Suppose the deer had not been found, do you think NOT calling a tracker was wise?
|
|
|
Post by salt on Oct 12, 2011 17:28:59 GMT -5
I'm not saying that it isn't wise if the resources are available to call in a dog. Heck, if the resources are available call in 10 dogs. Call in an army if the resources are available. I mean you no disrespect Timex. At 9:46AM today you stated "IMO, no excuse for not calling one in." So, IMO there are may be excuses and I don't feel as though I know all of the circumstances to judge that there was infact "no excuse."
|
|
|
Post by 45smokepole on Oct 12, 2011 17:39:17 GMT -5
I realize this is going to be an unpopular post, as my first. But when I came across this site a couple of weeks back, I had been following the " lost deer, need advice" thread. I am glad that it ended with great sucess and a fellow hunter found his deer of a lifetime.
But in the same breath, I do see what the guy at the end was saying, however a bad way of saying it. The poster in that thread did break a black and white law and it sounded to me as an outsider as that is what the guy was trying to say. To avoid future hunters from making the same mistake and maybe receiving a ticket.
If you look at the ask a CO section an actual CO answered the question a little different than the letter from the beginning of this post. So, obviously, you are going to get different answers from different CO's. So even though we are glad that Antler found his deer and all is well. I think we need to learn from his experience and the answers we have found here and make sure everyone nows the answer is call a CO when in doubt, not a check station attendant. It will avoid having to tell your story to a judge.
As far as check stations not coming out to check the animal in person, if I remember correctly, they changed that law about 10yrs. Ago and no longer have to personally go out to check it. And on a side note I don't believe they make much money, they do it to bring hunters in, to sell other services.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 18:30:05 GMT -5
Here's the point....the fellow shot what he described as a "buck of the lifetime" which generally means it's a pretty good buck. Now, he also asked for help if I remember correctly.
So, he's not found the deer at dark, but had time to post about sticking one on the 'net. As a bowhunter, something I'll never do is post on the dang net until the deer is found or it's considered lost. I've long gotten over the thrill of just sticking one, I want to put my hands on it asap.
So, the help I offered was a phione number that would have resulted in him finding that deer the same day he shot it, and the meat and cape would still be usable. The only excuse that I know of for not calling was Tim was IF he had called someone else with a tracking dog. I can guarantee that the deer being dead 40 yards from his last sighting, that most any dog would have found it just by smell in the air, not considering the track.
As a hunter, that decides to take a animals life, in my opinion, there is no excuse for not using all resources available to find it. With tracking dogs being legal in Indiana, that should at least be the last resort or the first. But it should be. Again, that's my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by antler on Oct 12, 2011 20:56:39 GMT -5
I could hardly imagine the how wrong this post would go when I made my first post. If there was any intent on breaking the law, do you really think I would post it on the internet?
Trust me when I say I do not have a hard time sleeping at night becuase of my actions. At no time did I have intentionaly break the law. If there is a fine to pay because of my actions, I would gladly pay. You know the funny thing about clean living is you don't have to constantly look over your shoulder worried that you will get caught.
I really don't have to justify my actions but I have learned a few things from this and will probably do a few things differently in the future. My biggest shock came from the few individuals on this site that take every oppurtunity to my actions and apply a negative intent to them. My favorite part of calling myself a hunter is that I believe that as a group, we are good people.
It seems that as a result of my post, it became very clear that there are a few egotistical "hunters" on this forum that think there way is the only way to hunt and there actions are always right, all of the time. BS
Thanks to those of you that provided support and encouragment, both on the post and on pm's.
Good luck on your season and God Bless.
|
|
|
Post by 5kirks on Oct 12, 2011 21:19:08 GMT -5
I think we should quit beating the dead horse, opinions are like -------- we all have them, we all might or might not have done it differently. Give the guy a break & quit judgeing him , none of us are perfect .
|
|
|
Post by windingwinds on Oct 12, 2011 21:35:41 GMT -5
I think actually it has been a learning experience for some and others may benefit from the ordeal in the future. Many who visit here are looking for hunting wisdom and ideas. We usually get that and we know that we need to take everything with a grain of salt.(many of us don't have too many friends and family that understand our hunting obsession). It is easy to say I would do this or that, especially when it's not you actually doing it, but hindsight is 20/20. Best to remember it's very easy to portray oneself online as pure as new snow. We are all new at one point, and we all make mistakes, or at least things don't go as planned. That's life, real life.
|
|
|
Post by 45smokepole on Oct 13, 2011 6:17:46 GMT -5
I think actually it has been a learning experience for some and others may benefit from the ordeal in the future. Many who visit here are looking for hunting wisdom and ideas. We usually get that and we know that we need to take everything with a grain of salt.(many of us don't have too many friends and family that understand our hunting obsession). It is easy to say I would do this or that, especially when it's not you actually doing it, but hindsight is 20/20. Best to remember it's very easy to portray oneself online as pure as new snow. We are all new at one point, and we all make mistakes, or at least things don't go as planned. That's life, real life. I agree, as I said in my first post, it does need to be a learning experience and all should learn from it. As I said I am glad the directoe of enforcement agrees that antler did a good job of trying. But, I have a hard time with all the "I would have done it the same way" when we know, now and some before. That there was laws broken. Why would we as hunters betrey, we would break the law, knowingly?? To me the correct reaction should have been. Congrats on finding your deer and it was honorable of you to use your tag to check the buck in. But, you should have called a CO because, it is the law ect........
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Oct 13, 2011 6:37:07 GMT -5
I think actually it has been a learning experience for some and others may benefit from the ordeal in the future. Many who visit here are looking for hunting wisdom and ideas. We usually get that and we know that we need to take everything with a grain of salt.(many of us don't have too many friends and family that understand our hunting obsession). It is easy to say I would do this or that, especially when it's not you actually doing it, but hindsight is 20/20. Best to remember it's very easy to portray oneself online as pure as new snow. We are all new at one point, and we all make mistakes, or at least things don't go as planned. That's life, real life. I agree, as I said in my first post, it does need to be a learning experience and all should learn from it. As I said I am glad the directoe of enforcement agrees that antler did a good job of trying. But, I have a hard time with all the "I would have done it the same way" when we know, now and some before. That there was laws broken. Why would we as hunters betrey, we would break the law, knowingly?? To me the correct reaction should have been. Congrats on finding your deer and it was honorable of you to use your tag to check the buck in. But, you should have called a CO because, it is the law ect........ Not sure why you want to repeat your first post over again. I think all of us have learned something here, so why keep beating that dead horse? I believe that the check in system is seriously flawed with the "check in the whole carcass" requirement, especially in the case of badly decomposed deer. Several years ago we were told by the DNR that any EHD found buck MUST have a tag on it to be possessed. No more untagged antlered skull pick ups. That could be in the form of a CO issued tag OR our own personal tag. That using our own tag on a found deer that was way past taking to the check station was inconsistant with the "black and white whole deer check in law". There are serious problems with a check in system that requires an individul to contact a CO to come out and look at a decomposed deer when the hunter is going to place his own tag on it. The desire to use one's own tag on a deer should negate any suspicion of an unlawful activity. But, laws are laws and we must abide by them and work to get the silly ones changed.....and work to get TeleCheck instituted which would make this "check in the whole body, rotten or not" scenario moot..
|
|
|
Post by realhunter on Oct 13, 2011 6:49:21 GMT -5
I could hardly imagine the how wrong this post would go when I made my first post. If there was any intent on breaking the law, do you really think I would post it on the internet? Trust me when I say I do not have a hard time sleeping at night becuase of my actions. At no time did I have intentionaly break the law. If there is a fine to pay because of my actions, I would gladly pay. You know the funny thing about clean living is you don't have to constantly look over your shoulder worried that you will get caught. I really don't have to justify my actions but I have learned a few things from this and will probably do a few things differently in the future. My biggest shock came from the few individuals on this site that take every oppurtunity to my actions and apply a negative intent to them. My favorite part of calling myself a hunter is that I believe that as a group, we are good people. It seems that as a result of my post, it became very clear that there are a few egotistical "hunters" on this forum that think there way is the only way to hunt and there actions are always right, all of the time. BS Thanks to those of you that provided support and encouragment, both on the post and on pm's. Good luck on your season and God Bless. Antler - you did right - you learned something, and now you have the knowlege of what not to do... just remember Don't argue with stupid people. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
|
|
|
Post by 45smokepole on Oct 13, 2011 7:13:46 GMT -5
Woody williams, I am not sure how or why I have struck a nerve with you and my post, or beating a dead horse, when ther are many in this same thread beating a dead horse in one way or another. As in the dog or no dog post. But I will apologize for upsetting you or any other members. We still have members reitterating, I would do the same or I would do it, or do it again. And untill we change those stupid laws, they are the laws. Again, I will apologize again, for speaking my mind. But, I do not see how I am doing any more or less than any other member on here, except my thoughts differ. Must I comply with the majority to be welcome here?
As far as the flawed check in stations, I guess I don't see them the same way. The law says not to do anything to the carcas untill it is checked in, in reality this is referring to a fresh kill not the situation we have been discussing. This would be where calling a CO in, to determine the route to be taken. And to say someone using their own tag should negate the law, doesn't seem to be an answer either. What would stop a poacher from shooting it with a rifle and a spot light and then in a few days check it in with his tag? At least if a CO was called out, he could try to investigate, to make sure it is legal.
As far as the ehd issues of years past, they were aware of the epidemic and probably did not have the resources to send a CO to every case or calll. To me this is completely two different situations.
I will apologize if this post repeats or looks funny, I am on my phone and it is hard to proof read.
|
|
|
Post by throbak on Oct 13, 2011 7:43:45 GMT -5
what scotty said, is a CO will first look at INTENT and in no way do I see INTENT of wrong doing,And from this thread we should see a different way to do things I am fotunate to have a dog that owns me, that has never not found a dead deer cograts on finding your Deer it Is A good-un
|
|
|
Post by trapperdave on Oct 13, 2011 7:48:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Oct 13, 2011 7:50:57 GMT -5
Woody williams, I am not sure how or why I have struck a nerve with you and my post, or beating a dead horse, when ther are many in this same thread beating a dead horse in one way or another. As in the dog or no dog post. But I will apologize for upsetting you or any other members. We still have members reitterating, I would do the same or I would do it, or do it again. And untill we change those stupid laws, they are the laws. Again, I will apologize again, for speaking my mind. But, I do not see how I am doing any more or less than any other member on here, except my thoughts differ. Must I comply with the majority to be welcome here? As far as the flawed check in stations, I guess I don't see them the same way. The law says not to do anything to the carcas untill it is checked in, in reality this is referring to a fresh kill not the situation we have been discussing. This would be where calling a CO in, to determine the route to be taken As far as the ehd issues of years past, they were aware of the epidemic and probably did not have the resources to send a CO to every case or calll. To me this is completely to different situations. I will apologize if this post repeats or looks funny, I am on my phone and it is hard to proof read. There are certain few "laws" I will break and deal with the consequences if any particular LEO decides to ticket me for it. My moral compass usually jives with the actual laws pretty well .... in those rare cases that it does not I usually defer to my compass.
|
|
|
Post by trapperdave on Oct 13, 2011 7:53:04 GMT -5
the correct and simple solution to this whole fiasco would have been to call a CO when the carcass was found..NOT THE CHECK STATION. Check stations arent law enforcement, cant legally make that determination, and can not ticket you as one poster claimed.
|
|