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Post by Decatur on Dec 12, 2010 15:19:35 GMT -5
Breyer: Founding Fathers Would Have Allowed Restrictions on GunsFoxNews.com If you look at the values and the historical record, you will see that the Founding Fathers never intended guns to go unregulated, Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer contended Sunday.Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," Breyer said history stands with the dissenters in the court's decision to overturn a Washington, D.C., handgun ban in the 2008 case "D.C. v. Heller." Breyer wrote the dissent and was joined by Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He said historians would side with him in the case because they have concluded that Founding Father James Madison was more worried that the Constitution may not be ratified than he was about granting individuals the right to bear arms. Madison "was worried about opponents who would think Congress would call up state militias and nationalize them. 'That can't happen,' said Madison," said Breyer, adding that historians characterize Madison's priority as, "I've got to get this document ratified." Therefore, Madison included the Second Amendment to appease the states, Breyer said. "If you're interested in history, and in this one history was important, then I think you do have to pay attention to the story," Breyer said. "If that was his motive historically, the dissenters were right. And I think more of the historians were with us." That being the case, and particularly since the Founding Fathers did not foresee how modern day would change individual behavior, government bodies can impose regulations on guns, Breyer concluded. In July 2008, the concurring opinion in "D.C. v. Heller" written by Justice Antonin Scalia and shared by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. found that the district's ban on handgun possession at home "violates the Second Amendment, as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense." The ruling raised concerns by dissenters like Breyer that gun laws nationwide would be thrown out. That has not happened yet. Breyer, who just published "Making Our Democracy Work," a book about the role of the court in American life, outlined his judicial philosophy as one in which the court must take a pragmatic approach in which it "should regard the Constitution as containing unwavering values that must be applied flexibly to ever-changing circumstances." Since the Founding Fathers could not foresee the impact of modern day communications and technology, the only option is to take the values of the Founding Fathers and apply them to today's challenges. "The difficult job in open cases where there is no clear answer is to take those values in this document, which all Americans hold, which do not change, and to apply them to a world that is ever changing," Breyer said. "It's not a matter of policy. It is a matter of what those framers intended." He suggested that those values and intentions mean that the Second Amendment allows for restrictions on the individual, including an all-out ban on handguns in the nation's capital. "We're acting as judges. If we're going to decide everything on the basis of history -- by the way, what is the scope of the right to keep and bear arms? Machine guns? Torpedoes? Handguns?" he asked. "Are you a sportsman? Do you like to shoot pistols at targets? Well, get on the subway and go to Maryland. There is no problem, I don't think, for anyone who really wants to have a gun." www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/12/breyer-founding-fathers-allowed-restrictions-guns/
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Post by dadfsr on Dec 12, 2010 16:03:49 GMT -5
Madison was just ONE of the Founding Fathers....really makes me wonder just how many more straws the anti's are going to grasp for.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 12, 2010 16:17:03 GMT -5
He is cherry picking.
"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at the individual discretion, in
private self-defense." John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of
Government of the United States of America, 1787-88
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the
United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
Samuel Adams, During the Massachusetts U.S. Constitution ratification
convention, 1788
"Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other
terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. The
unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or
state government, but, where I trust God it will forever remain, in the hands
of the people." Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, Feb 20, 1788
"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may
attempt to tyrannize, as the military forces which must be occasionally
raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of
their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right
to keep and bear their private arms." Tench Coxe, in "Remarks on the First
Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution." Philadelphia Federal
Gazette, June 18, 1789
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be
properly armed." Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who
approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright
force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is
that every man be armed. Every man who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry, During Virginia's ratification convention, 1788
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason
for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last
resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1776, Jefferson Papers 344
"And what country can preserve it's liberties, if the rulers are not warned
from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let
them take up arms. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time
with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to William S. Smith, 1787
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither
inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for
the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage
then to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater
confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century
criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764
"The Constitution of most of our states, and the United States, assert that
all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves:
that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are
entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and
freedom of the press." Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution,
1776
"A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves and include
all men capable of bearing arms. To preserve liberty it is essential that
the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially
when young, how to use them." Richard Henry Lee, Initiator of the
Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the
Bill of Rights. Additional Letters From the Federal Farmer 53, 1788
"The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans
possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments
are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison, The Federalist
No. 46
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A
well regulated militia, composed of the body of people, trained in arms, is
the best and most natural defense of a free country."
James Madison, I Annuals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789)
"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the
people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason, during Virginia's ratification convention, 1788
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve
order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were the
law-abiding deprived the use of them."
Thomas Paine, Thoughts on Defensive War, 1775
"A free people ought to be armed. When firearms go, all goes, we need them
by the hour. Firearms stand next to importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under
independence."
George Washington, Boston Independence Chronicle, January 14, 1790
"To ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally
indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil
interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good."
George Washington, The Federalist No. 53
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 12, 2010 16:19:10 GMT -5
Other quotes on the pssession of arms..
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmond Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the
subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have
allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall."
Adolf Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938
"This year will go down in history. For the first time a civilized nation
has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more
efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future"
Adolf Hitler, Berlin Daily, April 15, 1935
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one"
Jesus Christ, Luke Ch 22:36
"When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace"
Luke Ch 11:21-22
"{This} government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public
services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen"
Warren vs District of Columbia, 444 A.2nd 1 (D.C. App. 181)
"In recent years it has been suggested that the Second Amendment protects the
'collective' rights of the states to maintain militias, while it does not
protect the right of 'the people' to keep and bear arms. If anyone
entertained this notion in the period during which the Constitution and Bill
of Rights were debated and ratified, it remains one of the most closely
guarded secrets of the 18th century, for no known writing surviving from the
period between 1787 and 1791 states such a thesis"
Stephen P. Halbrook, highly repected Constitutional scholar
"The states' rights reading puts great weight on the word 'militia', but this
word appears only in the Amendment's subordinate clause {for those of you who
know something about grammer, the text of the Second Amendment fully supports
the INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms}. The ultimate right to keep and
bear arms belongs to 'the people' not 'the states.' As the language of the
Tenth Amendment shows, these two are of course not identical when the
constitution means 'states' it says so. Thus as noted above, 'the people' at
the core of the Second Amendment are the same 'people' at the heart of the
Preamble and the First Amendment, namely citizens."
Akil Amar, PhD, Professor of Law, Yale University, and highly respected
Constitutional scholar
"For the point to be made with respect to Congress and the Second Amendment
is that the essential claim advanced by the NRA with respect to the Second
Amendment is extremely strong. The conservative role of the NRA today, like
the role of the ACLU in the 1920's with respect to the First Amendment, ought
itself not to be dismissed lightly" William Van Alstyne, PhD, Professor of
Law, Duke University, highly respected Constitutional scholar
"The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of
the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its
interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century
after its ratification {before anti-gun liberals}, indicates that what is
protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry
firearms in a peaceful manner" United States Senate Judiciary Committee,
Subcommittee Report on the Constitution, February, 1992
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Post by nodog on Dec 12, 2010 18:07:00 GMT -5
Madison was just ONE of the Founding Fathers....really makes me wonder just how many more straws the anti's are going to grasp for. I like the train of thought the justice used and it should be the way things are determined. I personally think he's wrong. Madison put those amendments together because he felt the constitution to broad and THE PEOPLE NEEDED TO BE PROTECTED FROM GOVERNMENT. In no way was he doing anything but limiting government not empowering them to restrict personal freedom. The great thing about the Justice's comment is it should cause everyone to read history for themselves NOT let him prepare the ground on which the battle is fought (he did that framing Madison the way he did which I do not believe is true) Blow his interpretation out and he's left with no argument/ground to stand on. |
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Post by nodog on Dec 12, 2010 18:10:04 GMT -5
Other quotes on the pssession of arms.."A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmond Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis Freud I yi yi  I don't think he should be taken seriously. |
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Post by drs on Dec 13, 2010 7:02:38 GMT -5
He suggested that those values and intentions mean that the Second Amendment allows for restrictions on the individual, including an all-out ban on handguns in the nation's capital. "We're acting as judges. If we're going to decide everything on the basis of history -- by the way, what is the scope of the right to keep and bear arms? Machine guns? Torpedoes? Handguns?" he asked. "Are you a sportsman? Do you like to shoot pistols at targets? Well, get on the subway and go to Maryland. There is no problem, I don't think, for anyone who really wants to have a gun." www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/12/breyer-founding-fathers-allowed-restrictions-guns/ Breyer is an IDIOT! |
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Post by swilk on Dec 13, 2010 9:14:53 GMT -5
I was flipping through channels yesterday and came across this on FOX .....
wow.
That is about all I could think.
The man sat there and said it was not a judges job to make policy .... that their job was to apply the constitution to rulings. In the very next breath he goes on to say that it was also their job to determine not what the Founding Fathers had written but "what they meant" ....
He also made comments that would lead a person to believe he also feels it is a justices job to determine how a Founding Fathers opinion would have differed in todays world.
And .... he said that a justice needs to determine how a ruling will impact society in todays world.
Mr Breyer, The Founding Fathers were smarter than you. Please do not try to interpret what they were thinking or what they meant when they wrote the Constitution. Please do not try and "guess" how their ideals may have differed in todays world. Just follow the map they prepared for us and do your job. If you want to change the world please step down and choose a different career.
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Post by huxbux on Dec 13, 2010 18:21:25 GMT -5
Yet another display of straw grasping by yet another desperate liberal.
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I don't think he should be taken seriously.