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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 18, 2008 23:38:07 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if we wanted to shorten the season or not. States like Ohio, Ill, Ky, or the western states like Steiny indicated, does not have the presence of the biggest factor determining our deer season structure..........INDIANA FARM BUREAU. If it were left entirely up to them, we wouldn't have any deer here. Yaz Last time I checked the Farm Bureau is alive and well in "Ohio, Ill, & Ky". Most farmers of the Farm Bureau want deer gone, but the Farm Bureau Iinsurance company couldn't care less. They will get their premiums no matter what the deer/auto accident rate is. Does anyone think they take a loss on deer/auto accidents? Nope, they just increase your's and my rates. They WILL make a profit. If XX amount of dollars goes out they will make it up by raising the rates. Then WE pay for it, not the Farm Bureau Insurance company.
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Post by Sasquatch on Feb 18, 2008 23:43:32 GMT -5
I sometimes think our gun season is a little too long but I agree that all these changes are motivated by antler mania. I knew that the OBR being a "five year trial" was B.S. When the first five years went by, guess what? It didn't go away. After the latest phony five year "trial," it will simply become permanent. We'll try and shorten the season, and then we'll see a push for antler restrictions. I do not want to be sitting there on December 30th needing a deer for the freezer, and not be able to shoot a buck because it's antlers aren't big enough, simply because a minority of hunters have an unhealthy obsession with big antlers. I haven't taken a small buck in many years, but I would like the freedom to do it if I want to.
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Post by indianaboy on Feb 19, 2008 0:32:43 GMT -5
Bottom line is if the prices dont change on the doe tags it wont matter how long or short the season is. I am not going to keep paying $15 a tag after I had to buy another $24 tag. We need to get a buck and doe tag for $35 and then $10 a doe after that. Unfortunately this wont happen because they wont make the buck tag for all the seasons. You keep having to buy a buck tag for every season. How many tags will everyone buy the way it is now? I buy 2 on average. Thats if I shoot my buck with bow if not then I buy 3 all together.
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 19, 2008 5:13:57 GMT -5
So then the longer season didn't hurt anything did it. That's a big problem I have with this. I want to give people the opportunity to go out, not discourage them. We're not attracting new prople into the sport now, this doesn't help any. I really think the TV shows constantly focusing on how big the antlers are and showing them getting monsters every time has twisted peoples perceptions. How about being satisfied with doing the work ahead of time, doing the scouting, setting up to play the wind etc. and being able to harvest an animal? How about the joy of being out and seeing the deer come out of the mist at daybreak, or watching nature play out as the yotes chase the deer through the woods? There is nothing wrong with holding out for a mature buck but I fear in the quest for the big one the collective "we" have lost something along the way. I agree indianaboy, the tag structure doesn't help anything.
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 19, 2008 5:15:27 GMT -5
�It is just an unsafe time for landowners,� That statemment jumped off the page If it is that unsafe (don't remember the last time a landowner was shot, do you?) then we need to cancel all of the deer season. Maybe every other hunting season too. Most landowners want the deer gone. That statement was really a stretch.... At the least.
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Post by cambygsp on Feb 19, 2008 5:54:05 GMT -5
A move for more trophies or would it be better management.
I think what the artical was saying is that the two states compared to, they get a better deer harvest by the shorter seasons. Several short gun seasons would have the effect of opening day of gun season several times a year!.....maybe
I know that Indiana kills a bunch of deer that opening weekend of gun season, then it dies off pretty good. I could agree to experiment with a 5 day muzzleloader season in October, and give up the last weekend of muzzleloader as it is now. !!!!
I also like Ohio management as it relates to Crossbows! I agree we should move quickly and make crossbows part of regular archery seaason.
Every state has good points and bad points, I think our IDNR is doing a fair job!
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Post by Hoosier Hunter on Feb 19, 2008 6:20:26 GMT -5
WOW, I figured Don would chime in but seen hasn't looged in since Dec. 06.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Feb 19, 2008 7:19:22 GMT -5
Well, well, well....It seems that phase two of the OBR is now being pushed...what's next - antler restrictions? ................. .................... Only the DNR knows the answer to the question. It would be nice, however, if someone at the DNR could explain to the rest of the world why they are right and everyone else is wrong. Maybe you and Don should read the IDNR Deer Hunter Surveys to get your answer.From past IDNR Deer Hunter Surveys….2000….Hunter Satisfaction With Deer Management in Indiana. Survey participants were asked to indicate their satisfaction with overall deer management in Indiana (Fig. 3. Question 10). Three times as many hunters were satisfied with current deer management than were dissatisfied. Overall, 64% of respondents gave a positive rating to deer management in Indiana compared with the 21% which gave a negative rating. 2002…Hunter Satisfaction With Deer Management in IndianaAlmost four times as many hunters were satisfied with current deer management than were dissatisfied (positive:negative ratio of 3.8:1). Overall, 60% of respondents gave a positive rating to deer management in Indiana compared with the 16% which gave a negative rating. So, who is "right" and who is "wrong" here?
GEE, looks like there was less giving the IDNR deer management negative ratings in 2002 than there was in 2000.
I'll see if I can get you and Don the 2005 deer hunter survey. Want to bet the positive and negative haven't changed much?
BTW - KY's zone one's RIFLE season is as long as our's AND they time the RIFLE season to coincide with the rut.Yeah! Nuff said!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by js2397 on Feb 19, 2008 7:59:09 GMT -5
I have read several articles and seen a lot of negative comments on Illinois’ deer management. None of it had to do with season length or timing but I do not think they are a model of good management. As far as some of the other states I think most hunters would give if there were other management techniques from those states. Like Illinois’ two firearms bucks, or Ohio’s crossbow rule, or Kentucky’s early muzzleloader season or opening our gun season when they open theirs.
The biggest thing to me and to all those antler crazed people should be the harvest only changed by 2%. That is not enough to make any real difference. So why would we want to take opportunities away for nothing.
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 19, 2008 8:03:20 GMT -5
Yep; funny how that wasn't pointed out more. But hey, why let facts get in the way..........
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Post by freedomhunter on Feb 19, 2008 9:30:08 GMT -5
Ohio is following in the footsteps of Iowa and setting the bar in deer management (and yes, it provides more opportunities at less gun-pressured mature bucks). Indiana is lagging behind. There is going to be a big shift from Illinois (once it hits the fan there, which is soon) to Ohio. I imagine Indiana will get some trickle as a second-class trophy destination. Kentucky has had the obr a lot longer than Indiana, a few more years down the road we might be where they are at. Although, I still contend the only part of Indiana remotely similar to Kentucky is far southern Indiana, so it is not apples to apples comparison.
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Post by bowpro1 on Feb 19, 2008 10:51:01 GMT -5
I have been saying that Indiana's gun season is to long for several years now. There is almost 6 weeks of gun season here. More than any in any state. Bow hunters took it on the chin with the one buck rule to save more and larger bucks( which by the way only took maybe 2% of the extra buck population) but when you add the 3 weeks of ML season it didn't do a hole lot to the overall age structure. Same amount of big bucks just taken in different areas, Mostly I would say from land owners changing hands and smaller land parcels to hunt.
I see a 1 week modern fire arm season and 1 week ML season working here, no bigger than Indiana is compared to other bigger states I hunt with a lot bigger deer herd.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 19, 2008 11:52:10 GMT -5
I have been saying that Indiana's gun season is to long for several years now. There is almost 6 weeks of gun season here. More than any in any state. Bow hunters took it on the chin with the one buck rule to save more and larger bucks( which by the way only took maybe 2% of the extra buck population) but when you add the 3 weeks of ML season it didn't do a hole lot to the overall age structure. Same amount of big bucks just taken in different areas, Mostly I would say from land owners changing hands and smaller land parcels to hunt. I see a 1 week modern fire arm season and 1 week ML season working here, no bigger than Indiana is compared to other bigger states I hunt with a lot bigger deer herd. Iowa 2007-2008 Deer Hunting Season Dates Regular Gun Season(s) Season 1: December 1 - 5, 2007 Season 2: December 8 - 16, 2007 Bow Season October 1 - November 30, 2007 and December 17, 2007 - January 10, 2008 Early Muzzleloader Season (IA residents only) October 13 - 21, 2007 Muzzleloader Season December 17 - January 10, 2008 Nonresident Holiday Muzzleloader Antlerless-only December 24, 2007 - January 2, 2008 Special Youth Season (IA residents only) September 15 - 30, 2007 Disabled Hunter Season September 15 - 30, 2007 Special November Antlerless Season (IA residents only) November 23 - 25, 2007 Special January Antlerless Season (IA residents only) January 11 - 27, 2008 Hey look ....they GUN hunt there 34 DAYS...they gun hunt in Oct. also.......
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Post by bowpro1 on Feb 19, 2008 12:05:05 GMT -5
Yup your right, But this is not Iowa.
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Post by deerpreacher on Feb 19, 2008 12:15:46 GMT -5
I am glad the DNR is handling this and not hunters because we are too apt to have an opinion base on our personal bias rather than the facts. I'm sure that most bow hunters would like to see less gun hunting and most gun hunters would either be happy with what we have or want more. The muzzle-loaders I'm sure would like to have an early season. (etc. etc.). Indiana does, in my opinion, a decent job riding the tight rope between land owners and the hunters and a decent job managing a deer population that is not bad compared to how populated (humans) the state is. The program we have now based upon doe tags per county seems to be a far better way of doing things compared to the way things were done in the late eighties and early nighties. The OBR has its good points and its bad. As far as the seasons and their length, I'm OK. The truth is that there are too many different perspectives to come to an agreement here.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 19, 2008 12:19:22 GMT -5
Yup your right, But this is not Iowa. Your quote was ...."There is almost 6 weeks of gun season here. More than any in any state.".....which is false info, that was my point!!!! Indiana has 32 days of gun season, which is 4.5 weeks.....
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Post by mudstrider on Feb 19, 2008 12:19:30 GMT -5
Bowpro1, where are getting "6 weeks of gun season" here in Indiana? There has only been two weeks of firearms in November and two weeks of ML in December for a long time. Frankly, I love the long seasons because it gives me opportunity to get out in the woods on days when there are fewer other hunters out. I have time to observe and change my strategies, and I like hunting in all different kinds of weather... it is part of the hunting experience. I'd hate to only have 4 days and then another 4 days, and they all be too warm or wet, etc.
On top of all that, I am a meat hunter along with several of my buddies. Gun season is when we harvest most of our meat. A shortened season means less meat in the freezer!!!
Boo, on whoever wrote the original article...
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Post by bowpro1 on Feb 19, 2008 12:59:09 GMT -5
I'm sorry I didn’t take time to do the math. You guy's are right. I’ll keep my opinions to myself. Bow-gun it makes no difference to me. Brown it's down. I’ll sale bows and shut up. I guess in the end it won't make a difference.
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Post by outdoorswithdon on Feb 19, 2008 13:08:33 GMT -5
Sorry for not responding until now. I've been chasing fishable ice around the country for the past couple weeks - and I couldn't get online in northeast Montana.
It looks like I've angered the same group of guys I usually do. Not that their comments are without merit.
First, there is no mention of trophy management, antlers, OBR or leasing in the article for good reason - they have nothing to do with changing the season for me. Some of you can try and put words and intent into my piece, but I wrote it.
The piece was intended to adress 2 points only: 1. Shorter seasons are proven to kill more deer, and 2. shorter seasons are easier on landowners.
Both Illinois and Ohio tested our longer season. Both said harvest went down until they switched back to short seasons. And though I was not shot on either of my managed properties this year, I was threatened on them by trespassers, as I am almost every year during gun season.
There are a lot of other things IN needs to do to fix our season. Our first gun tag should be either sex, non-resident tags should be raised to match surrounding states, just for starters. Though I am a fan of OBR, by the way, I think we could do away with it if we went to shorter seasons.
I know we all don't agree on this one, and I am under no illusion that anything will change without a change in the DNR. I will tell all of you, however, that I talked to biologists from 20 ststes for this piece, and everyone of them questioned Indiana's antiquated approach to deer mangement.
Don
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 19, 2008 13:56:56 GMT -5
Dn,
I'm in teh middle of a project over at church so I will get back with you later.
One question fro now though - Is not the IDNR doing exactly what the majority of Indiana deer hunters want?
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