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Post by parson on Dec 1, 2009 7:46:45 GMT -5
For years I've encountered those who have been told that they can just dump a load of powder down the tube, and any that don't burn will just blow out the barrel!
Folks, this can kill you! Please, measure your loads, using reputable information, preferably that which comes from the maker of your firearm.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 1, 2009 8:57:17 GMT -5
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 1, 2009 10:44:51 GMT -5
wow
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Dec 1, 2009 18:06:24 GMT -5
The Theory, as told in some traditional M/L forums, is that X length barrel will burn a max of Y powder. So anything more than Y will just be shot out of the barrel. I have never put this theory to the test.
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Post by Decatur on Dec 1, 2009 18:08:34 GMT -5
Plus not to mention that powder isn't exactly cheap. Even if this scary theory is true, why would you want to waste powder out of sheer laziness?
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Dec 1, 2009 18:15:20 GMT -5
Plus not to mention that powder isn't exactly cheap. Even if this scary theory is true, why would you want to waste powder out of sheer laziness? Same people that shoot at sounds? |
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Post by stevein on Dec 1, 2009 22:13:15 GMT -5
I think this comes from the 70's when a group attempted to blow up a cheap import repro rifle. They grossly overloaded powder, shot multiple balls did several combinations of granulations and still were not able to make it come apart. This was with black powder, not substitutes. I think that they did get the nipple to strip when loaded with a massive charge of 4f.
As far as unburnt powder being blown out this comes from cronographing loads and watching velocity rise as charge increases. At some point the velocity gain drops off and recoil continues to rise leading to the conclusion that the powder becomes a projectile.
I have proof fired all the ML's I have built with 2x max powder and double patched balls. In a .54 that comes to 240 grains 2f and 2 235 grain round balls. Proving done on a block ignited with a fuse. Everything has held together with no damage. I do not prove in the stock.
I have been shooting muzzle loaders for over 40 years. I have mis-loaded just about every way possible including a double load. I have never shot a ramrod of shot a load not seated on the powder. I feel that with real black powder it would be very difficult to blow up a modern rifle with the projectile seated on the powder.
I do not know what happens when substitute powders are overloaded.
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Post by oldhoyt on Dec 2, 2009 9:14:30 GMT -5
Assuming we are talking BP, yes, a certain amount of unburnt powder will be blown out of the muzzle. The exact amount would depend on things like barrel length, weight of projectile, granulation of powder, etc. This is not a myth.
Typically, the way to develop a load for hunting is to start at the low end for the charge, and work your way up in increments of 5 or 10 grains. Accuracy will normally start to decrease at some point within the range of recommended charges (for 50 cal guns, that could be anywhere from 90-130 grains). When you find where accuracy drops off, you hunting load is the previous charge that held good accuracy. In most cases, a very high percentage of the powder will be burnt within this range of charges.
Now, why anyone would assume that it would be wise to simply overcharge the gun is another matter.
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Post by old3arrows on Dec 4, 2009 22:08:25 GMT -5
Many years ago I watched from a ridge top as my father shot a fork horn with a T/C Hawken 50 caliber muzzle loader. He broke its back and reloaded to dispatch the deer. I started walking down to help him when I heard the gun discharge the second time. I remember that the sound was not quite right. Upon walking up to the deer, I noticed that it was full of splinters. He had been in such a hurry to finish the deer off that he had left the ram rod in the barrel when he shot the deer again. His pride was a little hurt, but the gun was not. His standard load was 100 grains of Goex 2F, with a wonder lubed 240 grain cast buffalo bullet.
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Post by old3arrows on Dec 4, 2009 22:20:34 GMT -5
I was wrong about the bullet weight it had to be in the 300 to 350 grain range. That load put a real thump to your shoulder!
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Post by beehunter on Dec 5, 2009 5:16:52 GMT -5
About 25 yrs ago I accidently put a double charge of 220 grains in my new M/L and when I shot it the stock cracked right below the nipple end of the barrel. TC replaced the stock for free even after I told them it was more than likely my fault which is one reason I am so loyal to their products.
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Post by single_shooter on Dec 5, 2009 19:30:31 GMT -5
Tag Team has that right about the "sounds" hunters. I moved here from Arizona and have hunted in a few western states. In northern Arizona I was in a small grocery with a buddy of mine when 2 guys (very obviously from out of state) came in and asked to buy 5 boxes of ammo each.
The speaker of the two said they had only brought 2 boxes each and already run out of ammo...this was opening weekend for whitetail. The guy at the counter asked if they were seeing that many deer and the customer replied.....
"no....but we've heard a lot of them"
I looked at my buddy and asked him..."so, just how do we walk through the woods and NOT sound like a deer to these two idiots?" Our only mistake was that we left and did not think to find out what area these guys were hunting in to make sure we would avoid them.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Dec 5, 2009 19:46:02 GMT -5
"no....but we've heard a lot of them" I looked at my buddy and asked him..."so, just how do we walk through the woods and NOT sound like a deer to these two idiots?" . Oh Man my sides are hurting. ;D |
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Post by timinmishawaka on Dec 9, 2009 23:14:51 GMT -5
He had been in such a hurry to finish the deer off that he had left the ram rod in the barrel when he shot the deer again. I believe that one counts as bowhunting.  |
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Post by indianahick on Dec 11, 2009 20:31:32 GMT -5
Could be this theory partially comes from the old movies where the hero pours powder down his barrel from a powder horn made from a steer horn then rams his ball and patch down to shoot that Mohawk that is attacking the fort with a tomahawk. Henry Fonda and Gary Cooper stood tall in the face of an Indian attack. Oh yes I remember them.
Personally I thought that it was kind of dumb to be pouring powder down the barrel without measuring it.
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Post by kevin1 on Dec 14, 2009 6:44:20 GMT -5
Could be this theory partially comes from the old movies where the hero pours powder down his barrel from a powder horn made from a steer horn then rams his ball and patch down to shoot that Mohawk that is attacking the fort with a tomahawk. Henry Fonda and Gary Cooper stood tall in the face of an Indian attack. Oh yes I remember them. Personally I thought that it was kind of dumb to be pouring powder down the barrel without measuring it. Pure Hollywood, a frontiersman of the day between shots and faced with a tomahawk swinging Mohawk would've been far more likely to use his gun as a club. Guns of that period were crafted individually by gunsmiths, and in the age before interchangeable parts all guns were unique. The gunsmith, since no two guns were alike, also had to provide a custom bullet mold for the gun's unique bore. The new owner would have to craft a suitable powder measure after determining his gun's preferred load, the measure usually also functioned as the stopper of the powder horn. |
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magnum500
Full Member
A man is built by trial... not comfort.
Posts: 78
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Post by magnum500 on Dec 14, 2009 19:08:39 GMT -5
Personally I thought that it was kind of dumb to be pouring powder down the barrel without measuring it. Kinda goes against reason and science when you get down to it. |
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 14, 2009 19:11:16 GMT -5
Pouring powder from a horn directly into the muzzle is a good way to end up holding an exploding bomb. Just a little ember in the barrel can ignite the whole mess..
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Post by hunter7x on Dec 15, 2009 12:19:05 GMT -5
for years i've heard the best way to figure out what amount of powder to use in any given MZ is to put a white sheet out in front of it, shoot and see if there is any powder blow out. reduce the charge size and repeat until there is no blow out showing up on the white sheet.... I wonder if the posted myth is some kind of expansion of on that theroy.
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Post by INDeerhunter on Dec 15, 2009 14:35:08 GMT -5
I no longer use loose powder as I have switched to the pyrodex triple 7 pellets and have used the manual (which we should all have read with our firearms hehehe) and use the charts provided for the suggested powder, plus I use the aerotip sabots which again has a reference on the back of teh package suggesting the recommended powder for the grain bullet. Just imo it is pretty fail safe lol. I have to say I have had no real problems shootin 100g of triple seven pellets with a 240g sabot out of my t/c but my dad had loaded his m/l with pellets and crushed them at the base of the muzzle causin them to leave a gap between the sabot and the now crushed pellets, when fired it had a delayed ignition. Other than that I havent heard of problems using the pellets, accordin to the charts I could use 150g which is 3 pellets but I prefer to only use 2 it is accurate out to 150 but I have never been able to see what it can do at 200yds cuz I have no range for that distance
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