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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 21, 2007 18:01:47 GMT -5
First off you do not know what BSK does for a living, but let me tell you that he is one of the aforementioned "top white-tailed deer researchers in the world". His credibility is on the line with every deer research project and related statement he makes. Yes, he does know Charlie very well and is not "dropping names" just to impress us. He knows a bunch of other "top white-tailed deer researchers in the world" too as he works with them daily. I'm sure that he could "name drop" a bunch of other equally impressive deer biologist/researcher names on us if he cared to.
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 21, 2007 18:09:29 GMT -5
First off you do not know what BSK does for a living, but let me tell you that he is one of the aforementioned "top white-tailed deer researchers in the world". His credibility is on the line with every deer research project and related statement he makes. Yes, he does know Charlie very well and is not "dropping names" just to impress us. He knows a bunch of other "top white-tailed deer researchers in the world" too as he works with them daily. I'm sure that he could "name drop" a bunch of other equally impressive deer biologist/researcher names on us if he cared to.
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Post by hornharvester on Oct 21, 2007 20:16:22 GMT -5
I totally believe what bsk wrote as he is an expert and knows from research and data what actually takes place and at what time of the year. If you read he explains why you see what you see at certain times of the month. Either way there is only couple weeks difference between the two theories and not work arguing in my opinion. h.h.
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bsk
Junior Member
Posts: 37
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Post by bsk on Oct 22, 2007 7:29:25 GMT -5
Hunter480,
No attempt on my part to purposefully misconstrue your words. I'm sorry you feel that way. But I believe you are confusing the difference between the "peak of the rut" and the entire breeding process. In one of my earlier posts, I described how even in areas with a very tightly timed rut, the entire breeding process takes 5 to 6 weeks, and even then that will include 95% of the breedings, not 100%. Even in a tightly timed rut, a few does will be bred outside of that 5 to 6 week window. A few mature does will be bred early, and it is not uncommon to see female fawns breed very late (January). The "peak of the rut" is simply the 10 day to two week period when more than 50% of breedings occur. It is the point when the maximum number of females are in estrus at the same time.
However, not all areas have a tightly timed rut. Whether or not the rut is tightly timed is influenced by many factors, including the herd's social dynamics (the adult sex ratio and buck age structure) as well as over-all herd health (healthy does will enter estrus earlier than unhealthy does in the same location). When conditions are not conducive to a tightly timed rut, breeding can stretch out for an astounding long period of time. Some researchers have suggested these long, strung-out trickle ruts can only occur in the Deep South, where fawning dates are not as critical for fawn survival, and generally it is true that most trickle ruts occur in the South. However, the longest breeding sequence data I've analyzed actually came from New York state, from a deer herd with extremely poor herd dynamics and health, in which the breedings were strung out over a 110-day window. That's 3 1/2 months. In a situation like that, a little breeding could be seen anywhere from late October through early February.
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bsk
Junior Member
Posts: 37
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Post by bsk on Oct 22, 2007 7:57:13 GMT -5
As for nocturnal versus daylight movement, whitetail deer are a species who's movements are tightly linked to periods of daylight and dark. They do not randomly move during all 24-hours of the clock. They are classified as "diurnally crepuscular"--move in low light conditions. However, many research projects over the years using radio and later GPS-collars with tip/motion sensors have established that in hunted populations (hunting pressure greatly affects deer movement patterns), the majority of deer activity occurs at night. These same studies also point out that the highest levels of daylight activity occur during the rut, but still the majority of their activity occurs at night even during the rut.
Now if a deer herd was completely unhunted--no deer in their lifetimes had ever been hunted by Man--you might see more of their activity shift towards the daylight hours, but even then the majority of that daylight activity would occur during low-light conditions (the gray-light of dawn and dusk). I have worked with such herds and they are much more visible during daylight than heavily hunted herds.
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Post by lugnutz on Oct 22, 2007 16:40:40 GMT -5
I always assumed the breeding phase of the rut was after the chasing phase, and before the post rut, not during during.
I've read in the past the during the breeding phase was not the best time to hunt, because of the bucks are in "lock down" with their doe.
BTW, just curious, how many does will a buck breed with? Or will he stay with the same doe. I'm sure it has alot to do with the buck/doe ratio, but not too sure.
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bsk
Junior Member
Posts: 37
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Post by bsk on Oct 23, 2007 6:04:07 GMT -5
I always assumed the breeding phase of the rut was after the chasing phase, and before the post rut, not during during. I've read in the past the during the breeding phase was not the best time to hunt, because of the bucks are in "lock down" with their doe. BTW, just curious, how many does will a buck breed with? Or will he stay with the same doe. I'm sure it has alot to do with the buck/doe ratio, but not too sure. lugnutz, Were those questions directed at me? If they were, I'm not sure I understand your first question. As for the second, that would be determined by herd dynamics, especially the adult sex ratio. The tighter the sex ratio, the more competition between bucks for breeding rights, the more daylight movement. But even playing that numbers game, at the point when the maximum number of does are in estrus at the same time will produce the least competition, hence could certainly produce a short lull in daylight activity. I have seen hunter observation data sets depicting this lull in daylight observations just at peak breeding. As for the third question, some of the recent DNA parentage studies have been very illuminating. Previous to those studies it was assumed that the dominant bucks in the area did the majority of the breeding. However, the DNA studies are showing that successful breedings (fawn produced) are far more evenly spread out between bucks than what was expected. Not only are successful breedings spread out more among older bucks, in the herds studied, some successful breedings were accomplished by young bucks. However, when examining the data closely, two points stick out: 1) Although the herds studied had excellent buck age structure (bucks of all age present in the herd, including old bucks), the sex ratios were not good, with sex ratios reported of over 2 does per buck. This reduces competition between bucks. 2) When breaking down the successful breedings by week, when the fewest does are in estrus (at the beginning and end of the breeding process), all of the breedings were by bucks 3 1/2 or older. Successful breedings by yearling bucks occurred when the least competition existed, during peak breeding, when the maximum number of does were in estrus at one time. This suggest that if a tight sex ratio herd were studied, yearling buck breedings would be less frequent. As for how many does a particular buck breeds, it appears to be very few. The "median" number (50% of bucks above that number and 50% below) is basically 1 doe. Few bucks bred multiple does successfully. However, in each study there would be one or two bucks that were inordinately successful, successfully breeding 5 or 6 does. But even though breedings are more spread out than expected, even among older bucks, it was still of interest that some older bucks appear to produce no successful breedings. This indicates that Natural Selection is at work, although the Selection process is not as "strict" as with "harem" species like elk or cattle. Other interesting items from these studies were that successful breeding had nothing to do with a buck's antler size. As more data comes in, it is becoming obvious that antler size has nothing to do with a buck's dominance status. Another interesting point; during the 24 to 48 hours a doe is in estrus, she will be bred multiple times, often 5 or 6 times. Sometimes all of those breedings are conducted by one buck. But they can also be conducted by multiple bucks as bucks of higher dominance status appear on the scene. When looking at the parentage of "twin" fawns, it was found that just over 25% of twin fawns have different fathers. The vast majority of twin fawns are not identical twins and can have different fathers.
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Post by cleetus on Oct 23, 2007 10:38:58 GMT -5
From what I have seen in the last few hunts (days), I think the rut isn't far off. One of the 6pts I have seen a few times is rubbing every sapling he comes across and I have seen several nice scraps. The two 8pts I saw in the field the other night were not locking horns, but definitely sizing each other up.
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