|
|
Post by xhunterx on Dec 1, 2008 15:18:44 GMT -5
I am tired of hitting deer with copper jacketed bullets and the bullet blowing cleanly through and leaving little to no blood trail. I wanted to fire some of the dead center pure lead bullets through my muzzle loader but was afraid they would deform under the magnum preasures, is this true? How well do they work for you guys?
|
|
|
|
Post by oldhoyt on Dec 1, 2008 15:23:51 GMT -5
No clue. I've only shot 50 and 54 cal maxiball conicals in T/C Renegades. The charge was 90 - 100 gr. of Pyrodex RS. Can't really help with lead bullets holding up to "magnum" pressures, but I will say that if you drive a lead slug too fast it will fragment on impact.
The old conicals I shot at deer were moving at say 1250 fps, and they performed very well. Passthroughs were the norm, and the bullets did expand some.
I don't know what gun you're using but I recommend you try Hornady FPBs. They are jacketed, but the marketing info brags that they perform well from 800 to 2000 fps. I've shot 2 deer so far and they worked well for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by savagehead on Dec 2, 2008 8:47:08 GMT -5
I am tired of hitting deer with copper jacketed bullets and the bullet blowing cleanly through and leaving little to no blood trail. I wanted to fire some of the dead center pure lead bullets through my muzzle loader but was afraid they would deform under the magnum preasures, is this true? How well do they work for you guys? What are using in terms of powder that you are not getting enough pressure for pistol bullets not to expand?XTPs expand at farily low velocities.1,100-1200 fps with a recommended max. of 1800 fps.As far as the XTPs go, the 250 grn XTP rarely exits even at Savages speeds which is considerably more than a standard MZs velocities.Both versions of the XTPs 250/300 grn usually mean DRT. |
|
|
|
Post by xhunterx on Dec 2, 2008 17:22:10 GMT -5
Currently using thompson center shockwaves with 150gr of tripple 7. They just blow right through without expanding well. I've had the same problems with powerbelts with 100gr of pyrodex through my prev muzzie. The wound channels are good enough the deer dont bleed.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoosier on Dec 2, 2008 18:42:46 GMT -5
When I used an inline and Hornady XTP's, I was to say the LEAST, unimpressed. They seemed to whistle through with no expansion. If you have an open mind, get a rifle with a slow twist and give patched roundballs a try. A pure lead roundball wreaks havoc on a deer's vitals. That is, if you keep your shots from muzzle to 75 yards or a hair more. If you give them a try, you probably will not look back. Pure lead is as good as it gets from any muzzleloader. Others mileage may vary. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by Decatur on Dec 2, 2008 18:43:29 GMT -5
I shot the Deard Center lead bullets out of my Savage. The one doe I shot, there were chunks of gore where the bullet exited!
|
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier Hunter on Dec 2, 2008 20:06:09 GMT -5
I get blood trails you can track from a helicopter using the Hornady SST. At times I think they're too destructive.
|
|
|
|
Post by savagehead on Dec 2, 2008 21:04:50 GMT -5
Are you using the bonded shockwaves by chance?They are a lot tougher than the standard shockwaves..back on the XTP subject.For along time they packaged the 240 grn XTP and it was actually a mag version.Some also shot the 300 grn mag.guaranteed pass through with little to no blood trail.Not good.In the 80 plus head of whitetails that my son and I have shot with regular XTPs.,95 % of those deer were dead right there.They were shot out of knights,T/Cs and Savages.Powders included R/S select,FF black powder,R/S pellets,Hockeys Gold.In the Savage the powders included,AA5744,Vit-,N110,Vit-N120,IMR 4198, and Reloader -7.Velocities ranged from 1700 fps-2400 fps.The 250 grn XTP never failed to expand.The 300 grn version never failed to expand,but I did get some pass throughs with the 300 grn version.The only time that blood trails were sparse,which was very rare, were due to angle of shot(High).The mag versions sucked as it would be a .45 hole in and out and you would be lucky to get a sparse blood trail on a high shot.A couple tracking jobs later and they were never used again.After putting approx.600 regular XTPs down range,and experiencing first hand the lethality of these bullets,I would say they are bona fide deer killers!
|
|
|
|
Post by huxbux on Dec 2, 2008 22:28:13 GMT -5
When I used an inline and Hornady XTP's, I was to say the LEAST, unimpressed. They seemed to whistle through with no expansion. If you have an open mind, get a rifle with a slow twist and give patched roundballs a try. A pure lead roundball wreaks havoc on a deer's vitals. That is, if you keep your shots from muzzle to 75 yards or a hair more. If you give them a try, you probably will not look back. Pure lead is as good as it gets from any muzzleloader. Others mileage may vary. Good luck. I've shot several deer with .50 caliber patched roundballs in front of 80 grains of powder and as long as it goes into the boiler room, you're bringing home the bacon. An added bonus is the ability to practice shooting a bunch of balls in front of black powder at a dirt cheap price. |
|
|
|
Post by xhunterx on Dec 3, 2008 12:59:53 GMT -5
Im not sure if they are bonded or not, its not the regular black shockwaves its the yellow superglides. The thick copper base lured me in as I wanted somthing that would not deform under magnum preasures. I had loved the look and design of the dead center lead bullets from the first time I saw them but was afraid to fire them with 150gr of 777 pellets behind them. I am however going to try them now. I know the fosters I shot out of my slug gun and the buffallo bullets I used to use in my old muzzie used to always do the job. I shot a doe at about 50-55 yards and hit her right behind the front shoulder as a tree was stopping me from getting a front shoulder shot. I knocked her down, then she got up and ran off. Never a drop of blood just a little hair. Look forever and couldnt find her. Its the first deer I shot with the superglides.
|
|
|
|
Post by HarleyHunter04 on Dec 5, 2008 13:23:11 GMT -5
Are you using the bonded shockwaves by chance?They are a lot tougher than the standard shockwaves..back on the XTP subject.For along time they packaged the 240 grn XTP and it was actually a mag version.Some also shot the 300 grn mag.guaranteed pass through with little to no blood trail.Not good.In the 80 plus head of whitetails that my son and I have shot with regular XTPs.,95 % of those deer were dead right there.They were shot out of knights,T/Cs and Savages.Powders included R/S select,FF black powder,R/S pellets,Hockeys Gold.In the Savage the powders included,AA5744,Vit-,N110,Vit-N120,IMR 4198, and Reloader - 7.Velocities ranged from 1700 fps-2400 fps.The 250 grn XTP never failed to expand.The 300 grn version never failed to expand,but I did get some pass throughs with the 300 grn version.The only time that blood trails were sparse,which was very rare, were due to angle of shot(High).The mag versions sucked as it would be a .45 hole in and out and you would be lucky to get a sparse blood trail on a high shot.A couple tracking jobs later and they were never used again.After putting approx.600 regular XTPs down range,and experiencing first hand the lethality of these bullets,I would say they are bona fide deer killers! I have recentley switched to the XTP in my Optima, I have put the 45 cal. Mag and the 44 cal. regular XTP, 240 grains down range. Both over 90grn or T7ff They both group well, I have read the 44's fragment due to them being pushed too hard, and the 45 mags dont expand sometimes. I have only killed a doe with the muzzy, used powerbelts, got tired of the price and the inconsistancy. Have any of you guys noticed any difference in the Mags and the regular XTP's as far as recovery? |
|
|
|
Post by parrothead on Dec 5, 2008 15:25:52 GMT -5
I just switched this year to the Barnes hollow point and all three shots have been pass through and dropped in their tracks.
|
|
|
|
Post by buckeater on Dec 5, 2008 15:36:22 GMT -5
I get blood trails you can track from a helicopter using the Hornady SST. At times I think they're too destructive. same here. where the last doe i shot was standing there was bone fragment all over the ground and she had bit and pieces all over her hide. |
|
|
|
Post by savagehead on Dec 7, 2008 7:24:36 GMT -5
HarleyHunter04,
In response to your question.The mag versions of these bullets are much tougher then their brethern.If you find one,it will be intact and have retained all most all of its mass.If I remeber correctly the 240 is only offered in the mag version. Under 75 yards you will likely not recover many if you do not contact bone.Over100-125 yards you will start to find the mag versions.Non mag versions in the 240-250 grn weight range will rarely exit and wil deposit all of their energy in the deer.You will also find jacket/core seperation in these non mag versions.
|
|
|
|
Post by beehunter on Dec 7, 2008 8:37:44 GMT -5
I use the standard shockwaves in 250 grain with 100 grains of 777 powder. I have shot 7 deer with this combo so far and all I can say is WOW every deer has been dead with in mere yds of where I shot it. Every shot has been a clean pass thru with a good blood trail. In my opinion I think the shockwaves almost do to much damage. If I had an inline muzzleloader with this load years ago I would have been alot more succesful in my early years of hunting.
|
|
|
|
Post by savagehead on Dec 9, 2008 7:22:41 GMT -5
Classic XTP failure.This was the doe my daughter shot with the 250 grn XTP Pistol bullet out of her Sav.10ML.BTW,her first deer.As you can see it totally destroyed both lungs with a blood trail Ray Charles could follow...no expansion issues..  |
|
|
|
Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 9, 2008 20:49:54 GMT -5
Honest answer? Anybody who wants these is welcome to them.  There's 25 ea, 250gr Ballistic Tips with Sabots. I'm shooting strictly Full Caliber Soft Lead in my two muzzies again. Chalk up the Sabots to a bad experiment. My current load out of my Buckhunter Pistol is 80gr 3F and a 300gr Improved Minnie... but I'm working up a load for the 250gr REAL. Out of my Flintlock, add 25gr 3F. But I'm all Lead, all the time. At BP/ML velocities & ranges a Jacketed bullet has neither the History (in years or total kills) nor the ease of use. |
|
|
|
Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 9, 2008 20:53:33 GMT -5
When I used an inline and Hornady XTP's, I was to say the LEAST, unimpressed. They seemed to whistle through with no expansion. If you have an open mind, get a rifle with a slow twist and give patched roundballs a try. A pure lead roundball wreaks havoc on a deer's vitals. That is, if you keep your shots from muzzle to 75 yards or a hair more. If you give them a try, you probably will not look back. Pure lead is as good as it gets from any muzzleloader. Others mileage may vary. Good luck. It's funny how Round Ball kills all out of proportion to almost anything else within it's "optimal" ranges.... I've shot several deer with .50 caliber patched roundballs in front of 80 grains of powder and as long as it goes into the boiler room, you're bringing home the bacon. An added bonus is the ability to practice shooting a bunch of balls in front of black powder at a dirt cheap price. |
|
|
|
Post by savagehead on Dec 9, 2008 21:38:06 GMT -5
Ironsights,
What excactly are the bullets your giving away? They look like Parkers?
|
|
|
|
Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 9, 2008 22:27:40 GMT -5
Can't remember. I got them from another guy at my ML club. They didn't work out of his Traditional gun (1/60 - no idea why he even tried them) so I took them to try in my 1/48 Flint. I get better accuracy with Minnies & REALS. I think there were 50 to begin with, but between the 2 of us we got it down to 25.  |
|
