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Post by M4Madness on May 25, 2007 17:10:16 GMT -5
Since there has been much heated discussion regarding out-of-state residents offering comments on the PCR issue, I personally read through 141 pages of public comment in the NRC's 162-page report on the administrative rule changes.
I could only identify 13 out-of-state residents among the 464 people who commented on the PCR issue. That's less than 3% of those who commented. They are as follows:
JJ M. -- West Virginia (page 34)
Greg H. -- Ohio (page 35)
Jonathan S. -- No state listed, but says he's a non-resident (page 35)
John A. -- Maine (but owns & hunts land in Indiana) (page 36)
David M. -- Texas (hunts on family land here in Indiana) (page 59)
Toby B. -- No state listed (page 61)
Russell S. -- Virginia (former Indiana resident) (page 70)
Kevin W. -- Illinois (hunts Indiana) (page 105)
Warren W. -- Ohio (hunts Indiana) (page 107)
Michael R. -- Texas (page 124)
Timothy D. -- Ohio (page 125)
Dennis N. -- Kentucky (plans to hunt Indiana) (page 129)
Karl M. -- New Mexico (plans to hunt Indiana) (page 135)
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Post by Woody Williams on May 25, 2007 18:19:26 GMT -5
............... I personally read through 141 pages of public comment in the NRC's 162-page report on the administrative rule changes. My condolences..........and thanks. There was some doozy reading in there wasn't there? I think this NR thing has been blown way out of proportion and sounds more like sour grapes from some.
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Post by M4Madness on May 25, 2007 18:30:22 GMT -5
I think this NR thing has been blown way out of proportion and sounds more like sour grapes from some. Yep. The NRC says that 81% were in favor of PCR's. Even if the comments of those who were identified as non-residents were excluded, the percentage of those in favor of legalizing PCR's would still be slightly over 78%. Their support did not make any difference in this lopsided issue.
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Post by greghopper on May 28, 2007 5:08:09 GMT -5
EDIT....
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Post by drs on May 28, 2007 5:56:16 GMT -5
greghopper, (and those opposing PCR's)
Enough, already! The PCR issue has passed!! Making it possible, for those of use wishing to use these type rifles to hunt Deer legally here in Indiana. If you, and others, are so against the use of these rifles; may I suggest you continue to use your shotgun slug's and M/L's, and quit whining. <Thanks>
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Post by Woody Williams on May 28, 2007 6:49:01 GMT -5
Greg,
Since my name was brought up in your "copied and and pasted" post I'll respond.
There are ways to check some IP addresses to find out state of origin, but not all by a long shot.
The major nationwide internet service providers (Like AOL, MSN) use a host of IP addresses that changes just about every time that their customer logs in. There is no way that anyone can tell exactly where that email came from in those cases. It will not say the sender is Joe Blow in Monkey's Eyebrow Kentucky.
That is one reason that forum administrators have a difficult time banning some people that use these nationwide services as we can not do it by IP in those cases.
You read m4madnesss's explanation elsewhere of using what was available to him, so it is not "false info"..
The IDNR and the NRC will have their handsful in trying to determine which email are 100% in state and out of state.
My suggestions to them IF they are really not seeking any outside input is to state on the NRC website - INDIANA RESIDENTS ONLY..
I think a better solution would be:
1) Allow all to send in emails for facts and data finding. Facts are facts no matter who sent them in.
The cartridge list that the IDNR put up as examples came directly from one of the Hunting-Indiana.com members that moved to Indiana not too many years ago. If that person was still living in that other state would that change that valuable data? I think not.
2) Insist that emails have the sender's personal address in the body of the email. Of course, for safety's sake, these addresses would not be shared with anyone outside of the IDNR or NRC.
The IDNR and NRC can then still gather all pertinent facts and still see exactly how many Indiana residents are in favor/disfavor of any proposal. No one would feel shut out. The out of state hunters contribute a lot of money to the IDNR coffers and that will surely increase in the future
My personal feeling is the IDNR and NRC should not just be making decisions based on what is popular - IOW - by "votes". They should be making good fact based decisions for Indiana's wildlife. Reaching good fact based decisions means gathering ALL the facts, no matter where they come from.
BTW - That individual that you copied and pasted from threatened to bring in outside biologists to counter the state of Indiana's biologists concerning the OBR.
Nothing was ever said by this individual, or any of his cohorts, when the hundreds of out of state emails came in opposing the "shooting preserves".
ONLY when a decision goes against what he wants does he cry foul.
Do you not find that a little hypocritical? OR are you also one of those that thinks if it is in your favor it is OK, but it is dammed if it is not?
The PCRs was passed with due process and we won. Get over it..
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Post by greghopper on May 28, 2007 7:54:14 GMT -5
greghopper, (and those opposing PCR's) Enough, already! The PCR issue has passed!! Making it possible, for those of use wishing to use these type rifles to hunt Deer legally here in Indiana. If you, and others, are so against the use of these rifles; may I suggest you continue to use your shotgun slug's and M/L's, and quit whining. <Thanks> DRS....Look who STARTED the THREAD ... I was Just clearing up some miss information....(yes my post was copied and pasted just like many do here to START a thread!!!!! )
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Post by Woody Williams on May 28, 2007 8:09:27 GMT -5
greghopper, (and those opposing PCR's) Enough, already! The PCR issue has passed!! Making it possible, for those of use wishing to use these type rifles to hunt Deer legally here in Indiana. If you, and others, are so against the use of these rifles; may I suggest you continue to use your shotgun slug's and M/L's, and quit whining. <Thanks> DRS....Look who STARTED the THREAD ... I was Just clearing up some miss information....(yes my post was copied and pasted just like many do here to START a thread!!!!! ) Post what "mis-information" that m4madness posted. Nowhere in his post did he say that this was all of the NR comments. He said -"I could only identify 13 out-of-state residents among the 464 people who commented on the PCR issue. That's less than 3% of those who commented." Email addresses do not give IP addresses and like I tried to explain to you even IP addresses are not 100% accurate in establishing a state of origin. This is all sour grapes by a losing side. Keep right on hunting with YOUR choice in a firearm. No one would dream of taking away YOUR choice, except the ARFs. OUR choice will NOT impact you in any way. IOW - Get over it....
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Post by greghopper on May 28, 2007 8:27:03 GMT -5
This is all sour grapes by a losing side. IOW - Get over it.... No... it is not all about sour grapes...Its a Quest to Stop the out of State vote. People are trying to use the out of State vote.........
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Post by Old Ironsights on May 28, 2007 9:15:20 GMT -5
So, you didn't like all those out of state comments against high fence ?
Thats nice to know.
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Post by hornharvester on May 28, 2007 9:44:56 GMT -5
[/quote]No... it is not all about sour grapes...Its a Quest to Stop the out of State vote. People are trying to use the out of State vote................. [/quote] When did the IDNR change the word from "comments" to "votes"? Last time I read it they said "comments will be taken" not "votes counted". I think this is a lame effort by a losing side to save face, "we didn't win cause you cheated". It must be like eating persimmons before they are ripe.. ....h.h.
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Post by M4Madness on May 28, 2007 10:03:47 GMT -5
DRS....Look who STARTED the THREAD. Greg, you always try to talk down to me like I'm some kind of gun nut who has no idea about deer hunting, but only fights for PCR's. I remember your comment on another board where you said I don't get my boots muddy, yet I post on internet hunting boards. Granted, I haven't killed a buck as large as your last one (yet), but I consistently take mature bucks most years and have bucks in both the Indiana record book and Pope & Young. And to top it off, I hunt in areas that are not conducive to big bucks. I'd venture to guess that if you hunted the ground I hunt, you'd go back to Pinewood Drive with a doe, small buck, or emptyhanded. Just because I don't chime in on deer hunting discussions most of the time doesn't mean I don't take an interest in it. I have administrative duties to tend to on other boards, and since time is of the essence, I don't spend a lot of time with small talk regarding how to target that big buck, etc. The PCR issue required more attention though, considering it wasn't just chit-chat. You need to start thinking for yourself instead of playing follow the leader. You had to copy and paste your reply above because you couldn't post a response in your own words. You are rabidly opposed to PCR's, yet didn't even write a comment to the NRC. And like I mentioned on another board, 145 of the 376 who posted positive comment on the PCR issue would have to be out-of-state residents to sway the balance to those opposed to PCR's. You and I both know that there weren't that many non-residents, so please let the issue rest and pick a different conspiracy theory as your new pet. Have a great Memorial Day, and may God bless you.
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Post by JohnSmiles on May 28, 2007 10:27:07 GMT -5
Greg. I have a long list of 'quotes' by one of your anti-pcr pals if you want to know who brought in the NON hunters on this issue, and REALLY got the Marion Co gun ban proposal started in the first place. And ANYONE who thinks out of state votes made ANY difference in this is woefully wrong. Or lying because there little last second 'wild cards' did NOT work here either.
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Post by greghopper on May 28, 2007 10:27:17 GMT -5
DRS....Look who STARTED the THREAD. Greg, you always try to talk down to me like I'm some kind of gun nut who has no idea about deer hunting, but only fights for PCR's. I remember your comment on another board where you said I don't get my boots muddy, yet I post on internet hunting boards. Granted, I haven't killed a buck as large as your last one (yet), but I consistently take mature bucks most years and have bucks in both the Indiana record book and Pope & Young. And to top it off, I hunt in areas that are not conducive to big bucks. I'd venture to guess that if you hunted the ground I hunt, you'd go back to Pinewood Drive with a doe, small buck, or emptyhanded. Just because I don't chime in on deer hunting discussions most of the time doesn't mean I don't take an interest in it. I have administrative duties to tend to on other boards, and since time is of the essence, I don't spend a lot of time with small talk regarding how to target that big buck, etc. The PCR issue required more attention though, considering it wasn't just chit-chat. You need to start thinking for yourself instead of playing follow the leader. You had to copy and paste your reply above because you couldn't post a response in your own words. You are rabidly opposed to PCR's, yet didn't even write a comment to the NRC. And like I mentioned on another board, 145 of the 376 who posted positive comment on the PCR issue would have to be out-of-state residents to sway the balance to those opposed to PCR's. You and I both know that there weren't that many non-residents, so please let the issue rest and pick a different conspiracy theory as your new pet. Have a great Memorial Day, and may God bless you. M4..If your such a Hunter then post some Hunting stuff!!!! All three sites you post on have been all about PCR's...thats all you post about...Move ON...like I said before "LOOK who started this THREAD "...YOU!!!! YOU also Have a great Memorial Day.....move on !!!!!
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Post by JohnSmiles on May 28, 2007 10:54:12 GMT -5
Greg, you always try to talk down to me like I'm some kind of gun nut who has no idea about deer hunting, but only fights for PCR's. I remember your comment on another board where you said I don't get my boots muddy, yet I post on internet hunting boards. Granted, I haven't killed a buck as large as your last one (yet), but I consistently take mature bucks most years and have bucks in both the Indiana record book and Pope & Young. And to top it off, I hunt in areas that are not conducive to big bucks. I'd venture to guess that if you hunted the ground I hunt, you'd go back to Pinewood Drive with a doe, small buck, or emptyhanded. Just because I don't chime in on deer hunting discussions most of the time doesn't mean I don't take an interest in it. I have administrative duties to tend to on other boards, and since time is of the essence, I don't spend a lot of time with small talk regarding how to target that big buck, etc. The PCR issue required more attention though, considering it wasn't just chit-chat. You need to start thinking for yourself instead of playing follow the leader. You had to copy and paste your reply above because you couldn't post a response in your own words. You are rabidly opposed to PCR's, yet didn't even write a comment to the NRC. And like I mentioned on another board, 145 of the 376 who posted positive comment on the PCR issue would have to be out-of-state residents to sway the balance to those opposed to PCR's. You and I both know that there weren't that many non-residents, so please let the issue rest and pick a different conspiracy theory as your new pet. Have a great Memorial Day, and may God bless you. M4..If your such a Hunter then post some Hunting stuff!!!! All three sites you post on have been all about PCR's...thats all you post about...Move ON...like I said before "LOOK who started this THREAD "...YOU!!!! YOU also Have a great Memorial Day.....move on !!!!! Not my business, but when looking at your signatures on this site and the others, and your cut and paste attempts at 'debate' concerning PCR's, it is you who cannot 'move on', as you say. You are still fighting a war that ended last Tuesday. Didn't you get the memo? Here is a condensed version: The other 49 states ALL got together, along with all the major gun makes who are only trying to make money(ya think?), plus I have heard rumor China even had a hand in this, and forced poor little ol Indiana to grit its teeth, ignore the IDHA's excellent 'just trust us' philosophy, and appreove the use of PCR's any darned way. Or at least some put it that way. Here is how I put it: Several sore heads actually thought they had aces up their sleeves, and got a big surprise. They were always against PCR's. They never ever ACTUALLY stated why, though they outright lied, made a thousand excuses and prophesies of doom to come, and some just jumped up and down shouting 'no damned rifles in Indiana'. Some still do. Which pretty much says it all. . . .its called a temper tantrum in most circles.
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on May 28, 2007 11:00:12 GMT -5
I know M4 pretty well...I can say he has one quite impressive collection of deer mounts and other animals,and probably hunts some of the most rugged terrain in Indiana...He also loves guns as much as I do or anyone else here...
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Post by mbogo on May 28, 2007 11:05:42 GMT -5
I prefer to call it the sound of victory. When viewed with the proper perspective, it can be quite humorous and very entertaining. ;D
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Post by Woody Williams on May 28, 2007 11:59:06 GMT -5
Greghopper's posts have been editted as he is quoting a person that is permanently banned from this site.
That person will not post his words on here in person or by proxy.
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Post by greghopper on May 28, 2007 14:12:57 GMT -5
Greghopper's posts have been editted as he is quoting a person that is permanently banned from this site.
That person will not post his words on here in person or by proxy.. Thats fine...But the Quotes seemed TRUE and to the Point
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Post by Woody Williams on May 28, 2007 14:50:30 GMT -5
Greghopper's posts have been editted as he is quoting a person that is permanently banned from this site.
That person will not post his words on here in person or by proxy. Thats fine...But the Quotes seemed TRUE and to the Point That is your opinion...
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