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Post by drs on Nov 25, 2007 10:45:07 GMT -5
Deer threatened by disease, rules
By Phil Potter (Contact)
Sunday, November 25, 2007
Hunters are beginning to ask, "What's happened to the deer?" Seven out of 10 hunters, taxidermists and meat processors say deer numbers are down drastically. Most attribute the decline to a virulent strain of Epizootic Hemhoragic Disease.
It sounds farfetched, but some believe the naturally occuring scourge could be a government attempt to biolologically curtail deer numbers to appease anti-deer agencies.
Stories abound in deer hunting
After all, Indiana's controversial summer deer depredation permits have quadrupled in recent years.
Figure in the ever-increasing number of bonus doe-hunting permits, longer hunting seasons, introduction of deer eating predators, increasing habitat loss, free roaming dogs, open markets for antlers and short staffing of conservation officers, it's a small miracle that deer numbers have survived, let alone thrived, to this point.
How many big bucks will be around next season if EHD and depredation survivors are being removed this year?
This really isn't a good year to take large numbers of does because they will be the ones to rebuild herd numbers.
If there is a deer dearth, there will be little alternative but to hunt longer and harder for the survivors. Deer don't have litters and some does never produce offspring, so highly impacted areas can be literally decimated by man and nature within a few seasons.
Billions of dollars are spent by hunters for leases, guided hunts, guns, deer processing, taxidermy, ammunition, licenses, sport vehicles and other accoutrements. Deer are an economic plus to the point it staggers the imagination.
While it is believed that deer will eventually develop better immunity to EHD, their numbers will suffer at every future outbreak.
Each year of fewer deer means more hunters will drop out, as they've done in the past with waterfowl and small game.
Perhaps the only answer is to change deer laws, shorten seasons, restrict doe kills, buy more public land for small game and eliminate summer depredation shooting.
As one Tri-State landowner and farmer said, "If anyone thinks deer are major agricultral threats to corn, then they only need to drive the countryside and see the solid miles of sprouted spilled grain that came from this year's corn harvest. Yes, deer eat a little, but I enjoy hunting them during the regular season as well as having them on my place so that my friends and neighbors have something to."
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Post by danf on Nov 25, 2007 10:51:21 GMT -5
And just what "deer eating predators" is he suggesting have been introduced? Bobcats? Give me a break- there's not enough of them to even make a *dent* in the deer population... Cougars? Show me one in the back of a pickup.... Coyotes? Don't think those have been "indroduced".... Sasquatch? Not sure they eat deer...
As for the rest of the article, I can't comment on what the deer numbers are post-EHD- I don't hunt any land that has had a known impact due to EHD in either of the last two years. I do agree with the farmer quoted at the end though- there is very little need for the dep tags!
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Post by drs on Nov 25, 2007 11:22:06 GMT -5
And just what "deer eating predators" is he suggesting have been introduced? Bobcats? Give me a break- there's not enough of them to even make a *dent* in the deer population... Cougars? Show me one in the back of a pickup.... Coyotes? Don't think those have been "indroduced".... Sasquatch? Not sure they eat deer... As for the rest of the article, I can't comment on what the deer numbers are post-EHD- I don't hunt any land that has had a known impact due to EHD in either of the last two years. I do agree with the farmer quoted at the end though- there is very little need for the dep tags! I agree with you "danf" concerning the "predators" being introduced. I've been hunting many years and yet to see a Bobcat or anything like it. Actually the real predators are Hunters, cars, and trucks. We must not leave out "Urbanspraw" too. I haven't see any cases of EHD in the area I am hunting. I Autopied the two Deer, I shot last week, and found them to be in perfect health! No sores inside their mouths, and all internal organs looked perfectly normal. If anything is decreasing the number of Deer it is this summer deer depredation permits which we really don't need. Also, some of the counties have too high of bonus tags issued. I think a two Deer limit is the best way to go to insure good future hunting opportunities. |
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Post by parkerbow on Nov 26, 2007 10:32:13 GMT -5
It sounds farfetched, but some believe the naturally occuring scourge could be a government attempt to biolologically curtail deer numbers to appease anti-deer agencies.
I was wondering if anyone else has heard rumor or speculation of this. I have heard this countless times that this could be another "management tool"
Good post DRS and all these things together is eventually going to catch up.
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Post by hoosierhuntinful on Nov 26, 2007 12:45:18 GMT -5
personally i found no dead deer on the 2 properties i hunt.....my buds who hunt public land found no dead deer in the woods,by water,etc.As far as deer numbers go i seen plenty of deer this year but a more balanced doe/buck ratio.And ehd hit many states not just here.This sounds like the rumors about how wolves were released,rattlesnakes being dropped from helicopters at night,moutain lions being released,etc.And of all the thousands of trail cameras set in the woods how many have got pics of cougars,bears,wolves,etc???or does the government go into the woods and delete the pics off these cameras before the hunters get back to them?As far as rules go i used to see 15 doe for every buck.Now i see about 3 doe/1 buck ratio.No there arent as many deer as there was in 1990 when i started but i still see plenty.
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Post by tobias on Nov 27, 2007 18:30:01 GMT -5
I have seen bobcats in Orange co. personally..........and yes yotes do eat deer, just a fact!!! I've seen on 3 different occasions yotes runnin deer from my treestand. As far as finding dead deer. I found 13 this Sept. on my farm in Orange co. and well as 9 more on Hoosier National property. Know what your talkin about before you start spoutin off boys!! In my area of Orange co. the deer herd is at a 20 year low at our place. EHD played a major role in that, but the yotes will thrive from the dead deer and the fawns this spring will have a hard time of it. It sounds to me like the guys ignoring the EHD outbreak work for the DNR!
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Post by danf on Nov 28, 2007 10:47:45 GMT -5
Not sure if you are directing your comments at me, but I'm not disputing the fact that there are bobcats around, nor the fact that 'yotes will eat deer.... Re-read my first post. I also did not comment on EHD affecting herds, again, re-read my post.
EDIT: after seeing your post in the "Furbearers" forum, I re-read all of the responses to the original post. No where did I see *anyone* dispute the fact that there are bobcats in the state. The closest anyone came to that was drs, and he simply agreed with my first post, then stated that he has yet to see any.... The DNR has made it quite clear in the last few years that there ARE bobcats in the state.
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Post by drs on Nov 28, 2007 11:31:07 GMT -5
I personally only seen bobcats in Kentucky. I've seen several Coyotes here in Indiana & Ky.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 28, 2007 11:32:30 GMT -5
I'll tell you what... I've hunted my little 40 acres 7 times since I have been back from Alberta and the sum total of deer seen is - ZIP.
The mud road ( 1/4 mile) I walked out on this morning had three sets of deer tracks crossing it. This is since the Monday morning rain. That is pitiful sign for this area.
BTW - Woodmaster and a friend of mine hunting the same stands has seen only a couple deer.
Something has decreased the number of deer big time.
I'm headed back to Illinois for the 4 day gun hunt tomorrow and I just might continue hunting Illinois exclusively till January 15th, 2008. At least there I am seeing deer and some good ones at that..
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Post by danf on Nov 28, 2007 11:33:30 GMT -5
I personally only seen bobcats in Kentucky. I've seen several Coyotes here in Indiana & Ky. Just "several" 'yotes?  ;D I have to remember you are in the southern part of the state where it's harder to see them.... Around here during the winter, it's easy to see at least one every week or two, more if you are looking! |
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Post by drs on Nov 28, 2007 14:19:30 GMT -5
I personally only seen bobcats in Kentucky. I've seen several Coyotes here in Indiana & Ky. Just "several" 'yotes? ;D I have to remember you are in the southern part of the state where it's harder to see them.... Around here during the winter, it's easy to see at least one every week or two, more if you are looking! My younger Sister lives in Mulberry, Indiana which is in Clinton County. It's flat & few trees, and they see Coyotes all the time up there. |
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 28, 2007 16:04:32 GMT -5
we take have taken up to 12 yotes a year the past few years in one spot in Owen County, and the numbers never seem to go down. They do stalk yearlings and the injured, and kill a few. The bobcats get in on the action, also. No ehd deer found, and the numbers appear to be getting out of control, again, despite depredation.
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Post by duff on Nov 28, 2007 17:29:36 GMT -5
I love the question if anyone heard EHD was a gov't conspiracy...I will now add that to the black helocopters dropping rattle snakes, yotes, and deer ticks all in the name of population control. Or cougars in Salamonie State Forest, or fill in the blank....
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Post by tobias on Nov 28, 2007 19:16:07 GMT -5
Kinda weird how the rattlesnakes are thicker than fleas at Morgan Monroe but not anywhere else. I do personally know a person who worked w/ the dnr on the rattlesnake release at morgan monroe..............but they didn't drop them out of helicopters!!! It's kinda like most rumors...........there's usually some sort of reality behind it.
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Post by duff on Nov 29, 2007 6:23:44 GMT -5
I am not doubting anything, I can reasonably guess they were not dropped from helocopter and minature parachutes to control an over population of turkies or coyotes that were placed there to control the deer.
No joke I have heard those rumors and the person telling me this was quoting it as gospel. Sometimes you have to laugh.
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Post by chicobrownbear on Nov 29, 2007 8:12:23 GMT -5
Where I am, the EHD was really spotty. Up around the Muscatatuck river on the northern county border, there was a lot of kill. At Mom & Dad's, farther southeast, I think I've seen more deer than I have in past seasons.
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Post by bschwein on Nov 30, 2007 12:18:38 GMT -5
I agree it was really spoty. I know some areas around Muscatatuck were hit really hard. Others not so bad. Its hard to say. I haven't seen near the deer this year, but at the same time, i'm hunting new areas I haven't hunted in 3 years.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 30, 2007 17:12:47 GMT -5
Dean Stallion of American Taxidermy told me this morning that they found a bunch around Tecumseh lake. 14 were bucks and couple whoppers..
That is about 2 miles as the crow flies from me.
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Post by mbogo on Dec 1, 2007 16:01:10 GMT -5
No offense intended to Phil, but after reading that article, I'm glad that he is not a biologist for the DNR. Merely printing these "theories" lends them credence to some and increases panic among hunters.
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;D 
