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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 13, 2006 13:52:51 GMT -5
Sorry as well. Maybe I'm just a little ouchy today. I just get sick of having to defend myself. I get so tired of all the bickering associated with hunting anymore. Not only here but all the other hunting sites too. Can't we all just go hunting? I'm in. Where & when are we going?
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 13, 2006 13:53:46 GMT -5
Sorry as well. Maybe I'm just a little ouchy today. I just get sick of having to defend myself. I get so tired of all the bickering associated with hunting anymore. Not only here but all the other hunting sites too. Can't we all just go hunting? I know-and I`ve said multiple times that the obr is so emotional for nearly everyone-it get`s heated. Not what I was trying to do though-promise.
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Post by dec on Oct 13, 2006 13:53:54 GMT -5
In about 1 hour. You guess the place, because I ain't tellin'. ;D
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Post by greghopper on Oct 13, 2006 21:20:56 GMT -5
Hunter480 you just don't get it do you. You have this need to bash on any one of us that likes to hunt mature bucks with big racks. I'm sure that you LOVE deer hunting. So do I. Deer hunting, waterfowl hunting, and turkey hunting are the three things that I am more passionate about anything in life beyond my wife, kids, and God. I love to hunt does, I love hunting bucks, I love letting young bucks walk thinking "I could have, but it was you're lucky day", and I love hunting mature bucks. Yet, somehow you (among a couple others on here) manage to demonize people like me because we choose to only actually shoot big bucks, regardless of the Indiana bag limit. OBR or no OBR, there is absolutely nothing wrong with desiring that there be big bucks to hunt. Right now I could give a rat's ___ about the OBR argument, so let's not even go there. I have never or will never rip on anyone for shooting a small buck. I have from day one said that harvesting a deer is a very personal thing. Shoot what you want. HOWEVER, DO NOT let me here anyone whine about never seeing or being able to shoot a big antlered buck, if that person chooses to shoot a small buck. You can not have big bucks if you shoot small ones. This thread was started by someone in reference to ideas about increasing the harvest of mature deer. (If that was not Lugnutz intent, then let him chime in and correct me on this.) Therefore, I offered up a suggestion on how to increase the number of MATURE bucks. I did not intend to start any OBR debate or get into a debate on the ethics of shooting a young buck. The direct question was asked and I offered an idea. It is a FACT, that you can not have big bucks if you shoot little bucks. No, you can not eat horns. Yes, every deer is a trophy in the eyes of the person who shot it. Yes, it is wrong to rip on someone for shooting a deer that is not what another considers a "trophy". NO IT IS NOT WRONG TO WANT TO HUNT MATURE BUCKS! How hard is this to understand? I've not once told you how YOU have to hunt. I've not once told you how YOU have to manage the heard on your ground. Yet, you (and a couple others) want to rip people like me that simply want to hunt mature bucks. The fact I'm pro-OBR has nothing to do with it. Heck there are several anti-OBR guys that want to only harvest mature bucks. Are they demons like me as well? Big racks have fascinated man since the dawn of time. Big racks are part of hunting, just as is the great taste of venison, just as the excitement of the hunt, just as is running you fingers through the coat of a downed animal. I get sick and tired of defending my desire to hunt big bucks to some people. Amen...
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Post by greghopper on Oct 13, 2006 21:21:32 GMT -5
I agree with DEC. What we hunt and what we shoot is a very personal choice that each of us has to make. As long as it is a legal deer I would NEVER say a word to anyone on whatever deer that they shot. If a deer hunter wants a deer, any deer, fine. If a deer hunter wants to hold out for a Booner, fine. Their choice. I also agree that IF a deer hunter wants to take a big buck he needs to quit shooting the small ones. The dead small ones will never grow up and the deer hunter has buck tagged out. Now IF he doesn't care a bit about shooting a big buck then by all means they should shoot the first brown thing with four legs to come along IF THAT IS WHAT PLEASES THEM. I have said it at least a hundred times - The ONLY person that we have to please while deer hunting is OURSELVES. NOBODY, the any deer hunter or the "trophy hunter", is wrong in the decision that we make for OURSELVES. . . Amen...
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Post by lugnutz on Oct 13, 2006 23:33:19 GMT -5
I suppose we all agree that both the OBR and the 2BR isn't achieving the "set" goals of the DNR?
DEC, is the only one yet to have any suggestions on the possibilities of what should get done.
I'm sure the state could come up with something that would benefit both type's of trophy hunters (meat and antler).
I don't understand why we should do another trial on the 2 buck system when we already have umpteen years of information on the 2 buck system. If any trials are to be done, i strongly suggest, that we should do something different than before.
I'd suggest: antler restrictions of somesort, except for youth hunters.
As dec suggested, maybe shorten the gun season, or move it around somewhat (even though, i think gun season will miss most of the rut this year)
Lug
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 14, 2006 9:36:38 GMT -5
I suppose we all agree that both the OBR and the 2BR isn't achieving the "set" goals of the DNR? DEC, is the only one yet to have any suggestions on the possibilities of what should get done. I'm sure the state could come up with something that would benefit both type's of trophy hunters (meat and antler). I don't understand why we should do another trial on the 2 buck system when we already have umpteen years of information on the 2 buck system. If any trials are to be done, i strongly suggest, that we should do something different than before. I'd suggest: antler restrictions of somesort, except for youth hunters. As dec suggested, maybe shorten the gun season, or move it around somewhat (even though, i think gun season will miss most of the rut this year) Lug grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr- There it is already-I told you the next deal would be antler restrictions-WHY? Way before the good ol` obr came around, Indiana ranked in the top 10 states in both B&C and P&Y entries. Why would you FURTHER impose your deer management on all of us?
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Post by indianahick on Oct 14, 2006 13:09:04 GMT -5
1- Those that think the Ill seasons will save bucks are incorrect. Until Ill quite posting their seasonal deer counts they were almost always ahead of Indiana in buck killed. Total deer also. Why did they quit posting it? Must have something to hide. What? Higher kill numbers.
2- If antler restrictions are so great then why are the Penn. Hunters wanting to get rid of it? Do not start yapping about killing does, they can kill does.
Any time you willingly let someone set restrictions. The ultimate victum is going to be you. Stay away from antler restrictions.
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Post by lugnutz on Oct 14, 2006 22:22:55 GMT -5
1- Those that think the Ill seasons will save bucks are incorrect. Until Ill quite posting their seasonal deer counts they were almost always ahead of Indiana in buck killed. Total deer also. Why did they quit posting it? Must have something to hide. What? Higher kill numbers. 2- If antler restrictions are so great then why are the Penn. Hunters wanting to get rid of it? Do not start yapping about killing does, they can kill does. Any time you willingly let someone set restrictions. The ultimate victum is going to be you. Stay away from antler restrictions. Ill has a larger deer herd than we have. Whats ya'll beef with antler restrictions? Something wrong with letting the youth kill the dinks, while the adult hunters hunt for actual bucks? Sure buck kills will decline, and hunters will cry cause they can't kill their yearly dinks (the same hunters that gripe about not seeing bigger bucks). If you are the type of hunter that doesn't hunt for the head wear, then killing does obviously doesn't bother that type of hunter. EDITED - FOR PERSONAL ATTACK..Maybe antler restrictions isn't the answere, but the OBR nor the 2BR isn't going to give the results alone. Its going to need more tweaking to get the results that are needed. Lug
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Post by lugnutz on Oct 14, 2006 22:33:11 GMT -5
I suppose we all agree that both the OBR and the 2BR isn't achieving the "set" goals of the DNR? DEC, is the only one yet to have any suggestions on the possibilities of what should get done. I'm sure the state could come up with something that would benefit both type's of trophy hunters (meat and antler). I don't understand why we should do another trial on the 2 buck system when we already have umpteen years of information on the 2 buck system. If any trials are to be done, i strongly suggest, that we should do something different than before. I'd suggest: antler restrictions of somesort, except for youth hunters. As dec suggested, maybe shorten the gun season, or move it around somewhat (even though, i think gun season will miss most of the rut this year) Lug grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr- There it is already-I told you the next deal would be antler restrictions-WHY? Way before the good ol` obr came around, Indiana ranked in the top 10 states in both B&C and P&Y entries. I think you need to back up and slap yourself! Feel better? I'm giving ideas. What are your ideas? I suppose you don't want any deer management pushed onto you. You just want to hunt the way you feel like it, correct? Lug
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Post by greghopper on Oct 15, 2006 6:12:23 GMT -5
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr- There it is already-I told you the next deal would be antler restrictions-WHY? Way before the good ol` obr came around, Indiana ranked in the top 10 states in both B&C and P&Y entries. I think you need to back up and slap yourself! Feel better? I'm giving ideas. What are your ideas? I suppose you don't want any deer management pushed onto you. You just want to hunt the way you feel like it, correct? Lug Yep....Sounds like it to me!!!!!!
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 15, 2006 7:09:29 GMT -5
First off let me say that antler restrictions, width or points, would have absolutely no effect on me AND just about every deer hunter that I know.
I do not know of anyone that shoots what you call "dinks".
If we want deer hunters to be more selective in what they shoot, which by the way is already happening, then we need to remove an obstacle for shooting does. That obstacle is another $24 tag.
Most of your opening weekend hunters buy one tag - a general firearms tag that is good for a buck only. They cant legally shoot a doe with it. If that tag was either sex they would be a LOT more likely to drop the hammer on a doe than a young buck.
They want to kill something and if a forkhorn and a doe comes by them and all they have is a general firearms tag good for a buck which one would they shoot? Which one are they morally obligated to shoot?
I would also say that a lot of does are getting killed under the general firearms tag as some of these guys don''t know that they cant shoot a doe with it. They are erroneously and illegally helping the "kill all the does and let the little bucks walk" goals of some people.
KY gives you two tags when you buy your deer license - one can be used for a buck and the other for an antlerlesss. That would work also.
As I stated MANY times - We all hunt to please ourselves. I do not want to impose my trophy hunting regiment on anyone else in order to grow MORE trophy bucks.
Education is the key without a state mandate and it is working. Maybe not as fast as some people like , but it IS WORKING.
If we had a problem like Pennsylvania that would be different But what part of WE ALREADY HAVE TROPHY BUCKS do people just not understand? We are doing just fine, two bucks or one, in trophy bucks... please leave it alone..
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Post by cambygsp on Oct 15, 2006 8:42:47 GMT -5
I don't think they are failures......both regulations are equally effective
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 15, 2006 15:05:13 GMT -5
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr- There it is already-I told you the next deal would be antler restrictions-WHY? Way before the good ol` obr came around, Indiana ranked in the top 10 states in both B&C and P&Y entries. I think you need to back up and slap yourself! Feel better? I'm giving ideas. What are your ideas? I suppose you don't want any deer management pushed onto you. You just want to hunt the way you feel like it, correct? Lug Lookit Lug-I`ll state this as simply as I know how-IF, and that`s a huge IF, there are management tools the DNR needs to impose on us FOR THE HEALTH OR BENEFIT OF THE HERD, I`m all for that, even if it does curtail hunting opportunities. My problem with the measures you suggest are that they ARE NOT for the health or benefit of the herd, they`re for the benefit of YOU, amd all those like you who don`t think twice about trying to impose your trophy management on me and all the others who don`t give a flip about trophy deer. There is nothing wrong with guys like you who want to hold out for a B&C, or P&Y buck, nothing at all. Where your antler mania does become wrong, is when you begin to restrict my hunting opportunities-again, NOT for the benefit of the herd, but to help you achieve your trophy management wants. Can I say this any more clear? You, and greghopper, and everyone like you, hunt for trophy bucks-but keep your hands off of MY hunting opportunities. It`s not your right to restrict my opportunities for your selfish gain. And yes, I will speak up everytime one of you start chattering about antler restrictions, because I`m SICK of you guys shoving this crap down our throats. We stood around and let the stupid obr become law, but I won`t stand for anymore of this going on.
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 15, 2006 15:12:57 GMT -5
First off let me say that antler restrictions, width or points, would have absolutely no effect on me AND just about every deer hunter that I know. I do not know of anyone that shoots what you call "dinks". If we want deer hunters to be more selective in what they shoot, which by the way is already happening, then we need to remove an obstacle for shooting does. That obstacle is another $24 tag. Most of your opening weekend hunters buy one tag - a general firearms tag that is good for a buck only. They cant legally shoot a doe with it. If that tag was either sex they would be a LOT more likely to drop the hammer on a doe than a young buck. They want to kill something and if a forkhorn and a doe comes by them and all they have is a general firearms tag good for a buck which one would they shoot? Which one are they morally obligated to shoot? I would also say that a lot of does are getting killed under the general firearms tag as some of these guys don''t know that they cant shoot a doe with it. They are erroneously and illegally helping the "kill all the does and let the little bucks walk" goals of some people. KY gives you two tags when you buy your deer license - one can be used for a buck and the other for an antlerlesss. That would work also. As I stated MANY times - We all hunt to please ourselves. I do not want to impose my trophy hunting regiment on anyone else in order to grow MORE trophy bucks. Education is the key without a state mandate and it is working. Maybe not as fast as some people like , but it IS WORKING.If we had a problem like Pennsylvania that would be different But what part of WE ALREADY HAVE TROPHY BUCKS do people just not understand? We are doing just fine, two bucks or one, in trophy bucks... please leave it alone.. . Woody-I have to disagree with you-AR`s absolutely would affect me. I am not ashamed to kill a button buck, a spike, or a little basket 8-pointer, and AR`s would take away hunting opportunities that I currently have. I don`t care about trophy bucks, I care about hunting and killing what "I" decide I want to kill. I say it`s selfish to the point of being arrogant to suggest AR`s, and I`m fed up with the nonsence these, so called, serious hunters are pushing off on me. I am NOT a lesser deer hunter than anyone who wants trophy deer, and I paid for my Lifetime License, I hunt legally and ethically, and I am entitled to kill whatever buck I want to kill. As I said before, I love deeer hunting for what it`s always been, just the hunting experience, and the venison, and the place these trophy hunters are taking deer hunting is bad for us all. I`ll make the DNR abundantly clear on how I feel about all this nonsence. It`s out of control, it`s selfish and I will do everything in my power to put a halt to this insanity.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 15, 2006 15:53:04 GMT -5
First off let me say that antler restrictions, width or points, would have absolutely no effect on me AND just about every deer hunter that I know. I do not know of anyone that shoots what you call "dinks". If we want deer hunters to be more selective in what they shoot, which by the way is already happening, then we need to remove an obstacle for shooting does. That obstacle is another $24 tag. Most of your opening weekend hunters buy one tag - a general firearms tag that is good for a buck only. They cant legally shoot a doe with it. If that tag was either sex they would be a LOT more likely to drop the hammer on a doe than a young buck. They want to kill something and if a forkhorn and a doe comes by them and all they have is a general firearms tag good for a buck which one would they shoot? Which one are they morally obligated to shoot? I would also say that a lot of does are getting killed under the general firearms tag as some of these guys don''t know that they cant shoot a doe with it. They are erroneously and illegally helping the "kill all the does and let the little bucks walk" goals of some people. KY gives you two tags when you buy your deer license - one can be used for a buck and the other for an antlerlesss. That would work also. As I stated MANY times - We all hunt to please ourselves. I do not want to impose my trophy hunting regiment on anyone else in order to grow MORE trophy bucks. Education is the key without a state mandate and it is working. Maybe not as fast as some people like , but it IS WORKING.If we had a problem like Pennsylvania that would be different But what part of WE ALREADY HAVE TROPHY BUCKS do people just not understand? We are doing just fine, two bucks or one, in trophy bucks... please leave it alone.. . Woody-I have to disagree with you-AR`s absolutely would affect me. I am not ashamed to kill a button buck, a spike, or a little basket 8-pointer, and AR`s would take away hunting opportunities that I currently have. I don`t care about trophy bucks, I care about hunting and killing what "I" decide I want to kill. I say it`s selfish to the point of being arrogant to suggest AR`s, and I`m fed up with the nonsence these, so called, serious hunters are pushing off on me. I am NOT a lesser deer hunter than anyone who wants trophy deer, and I paid for my Lifetime License, I hunt legally and ethically, and I am entitled to kill whatever buck I want to kill. As I said before, I love deeer hunting for what it`s always been, just the hunting experience, and the venison, and the place these trophy hunters are taking deer hunting is bad for us all. I`ll make the DNR abundantly clear on how I feel about all this nonsence. It`s out of control, it`s selfish and I will do everything in my power to put a halt to this insanity. Hunter480, You need to re-read my post. I said ARs wont affect ME personally. Nor any deer hunters that I personally know. It most assuredly would affect YOU and some others like youTo me, what you or anyone else hunts and kills is your business, not mine. I also said - Education is the key without a state mandate and it is working. Maybe not as fast as some people like, but it IS WORKING.This aint Pennsylvania.There is no need for ARs in any shape or form. If anyone proposes ARs in Indiana you will have an ally in me in addressing that with the DNR. Enough is enough and I believe we have went too far already with the OBR. Just be aware that there are people and groups out there that will tweak the holy you-know-what out of these trophy growing schemes until they get their way. “True believers” never quit and neither should we. .
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Post by racktracker on Oct 15, 2006 15:59:44 GMT -5
The people that got this passed has used all their political capitol.
Hell will freeze over before they get another so called "trophy growing scheme".
Put that in your book.
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Post by danf on Oct 15, 2006 19:09:00 GMT -5
I've been avoiding the OBR p*ssing matches to the point where I hardly even read them past the first page or two. It makes no sense to me why the argument is kept up- all it is is the same crap rehashed every time. That being said, even though I've stated I'm for the OBR in the past it really doesn't matter to me if it's OBR or TBR. I just want to hunt[/color]. If I'm lucky enough to take a buck that I'm happy with and I feel the need to take a second one I'll hunt with the bow at my family property in Tippecanoe County as long as the UZ lasts. That being said, I realize not everyone has access to UZ land.... My two cents worth (if it's even worth that much...) if we stay OBR is there needs to be ONE buck tag that is good for the entire season. Too many hunters like me who didn't or couldn't buy a LL before they became non-existent that have to guess at what tag to buy. The AL license structure is nice now, but the whole license structure needs to be looked at and changed. I would not support ANY antler restrictions. It's hard enough for me to get a good enough look to count points, let alone figure out spread. If it's a shooter in my book, I'll know it at first glance- I shouldn't have to study it for 1/2 hour before deciding if it's legal or not! You can go back to your p*ssing match.......
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Post by indianahick on Oct 15, 2006 20:08:10 GMT -5
Lug one last question for you to think about.
HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT THE SOIL IN INDIANA DOES NOT REPEAT DOES NOT HAVE THE MINERALS IN IT TO ACHIEVE HIGH TROPHY ANTLERS AS A RULE. That is AS A RULE. Which means that there are always abboritions.
Now on a personal note I take your calling me a trespasser highly personal and I would thank you to keep your inane, asinine, inarticulate observations to yourself.
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Post by lugnutz on Oct 15, 2006 20:58:51 GMT -5
Lug one last question for you to think about. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT THE SOIL IN INDIANA DOES NOT REPEAT DOES NOT HAVE THE MINERALS IN IT TO ACHIEVE HIGH TROPHY ANTLERS AS A RULE. That is AS A RULE. Which means that there are always abboritions. Now on a personal note I take your calling me a trespasser highly personal and I would thank you to keep your inane, asinine, inarticulate observations to yourself. My bad, on those comments i was red faced at the time!
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