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Post by gundude on Jan 14, 2008 17:49:57 GMT -5
So you guys consider this sort of thing as "hunting"?
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Post by hornharvester on Jan 14, 2008 18:05:47 GMT -5
No, that story has nothing to do with hunting. Its about illegal buying and selling of what most states consider varmints. The buyers are running coyote and fox trials in big pens which is legal in several states. Some of these pens can be over 500 acres in size. Most of the time the dogs never catch the animals they chase unless they are in a small pen. The only way the coyote or fox is killed if the dogs catch it. h.h.
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Post by gundude on Jan 14, 2008 18:19:56 GMT -5
No, that story has nothing to do with hunting. Its about illegal buying and selling of what most states consider varmints. The buyers are running coyote and fox trials in big pens which is legal in several states. Some of these pens can be over 500 acres in size. Most of the time the dogs never catch the animals they chase unless they are in a small pen. The only way the coyote or fox is killed if the dogs catch it. h.h. So your saying as long as that practice is legal in some States then you have no problem with it and consider it "hunting"? Do you consider it ethical?...Do you consider it fair chase?
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Post by hornharvester on Jan 14, 2008 19:28:33 GMT -5
No, that story has nothing to do with hunting. Its about illegal buying and selling of what most states consider varmints. The buyers are running coyote and fox trials in big pens which is legal in several states. Some of these pens can be over 500 acres in size. Most of the time the dogs never catch the animals they chase unless they are in a small pen. The only way the coyote or fox is killed if the dogs catch it. h.h. So your saying as long as that practice is legal in some States then you have no problem with it and consider it "hunting"? Do you consider it ethical?...Do you consider it fair chase? The story you linked to is its not about hunting its about running pens and fox and coyote dog trials inside those pens. If its legal to do in their state then its non of my business what they do. I'm not going to judge anyone from a editorial filmed to make them look like bad guys. Whether is ethical or fair chase is still non of my business since its legal in that state. h.h.
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Post by dbd870 on Jan 14, 2008 21:36:05 GMT -5
So you guys consider this sort of thing as "hunting"? That's what we're saying; this has nothing to do with hunting.
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Post by sgtwal on Jan 17, 2008 15:10:15 GMT -5
So the key for many is that the animal can escape in some way. HMM. Let's say I have a 5 acre plot of pine trees. I place you in a stand in that plot with a rifle attached to a device that alows you to shoot at a deer only in a 5 foot square area. And with a timer on the rifle that alows it to fire only during a 3/10ths second period after the safety is off. Is that fair chase? The deer can escape by staying out of the square, or by leaving it before you get the shot off. The concept is no different than the situations you describe except in the scale. All I have done is take away your movement and restricted the deers to compensate. It may not sound like fun but is it "Fair"?
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Post by firstwd on Jan 17, 2008 16:03:12 GMT -5
Is all the urban sprawl and destruction of the animals habitat fair?
Is killing an animal because it wasn't afraid of humans, and attacked someone in a mountain lion's front yard, or a bear's feeding ground, or a wolve's hunting range, fair? When the white settlers of this country showed up and starting pushing the native humans from the land, building towns, cutting forests, and fencing the land, "fair chase" began to take on a situational definition. With that, not everyone's interpretation of "fair chase" will be the same.
With the Government we chose to have, the the only definition of fair we can judge with, is if it is legal. As with all aspects of our Government, if you feel something that is considered legal to be changed you must work within the confines of that Government to change it.
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Post by RiverJim on Jan 18, 2008 7:27:04 GMT -5
Here's what I always ask. .....If it is wrong to shoot a running deer, why is it wrong to shoot waterfowl on the ground? In one you try NOT to take the higher risk shot, in the other you try TO take the higher risk shot! I know this is a ethics thing and not really fair chase but I never really understood this?
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Post by duff on Jan 19, 2008 10:25:46 GMT -5
No, that story has nothing to do with hunting. Its about illegal buying and selling of what most states consider varmints. The buyers are running coyote and fox trials in big pens which is legal in several states. Some of these pens can be over 500 acres in size. Most of the time the dogs never catch the animals they chase unless they are in a small pen. The only way the coyote or fox is killed if the dogs catch it. h.h. So your saying as long as that practice is legal in some States then you have no problem with it and consider it "hunting"? Do you consider it ethical?...Do you consider it fair chase? Do you consider the bird farms ethical and fair chase? Please don't give me the story they can escape. What about catching Indianas minnows putting them in tanks and selling them as bait? They are Indiana's resources and someone is making money off of them.
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Post by huxbux on Jan 20, 2008 13:56:25 GMT -5
Just because it's a legally taken animal, it won't necessarily meet every individual's criteria for "fair chase". This is a matter of morality. Matters concerning morality can only be decided by each individual. h.h reply that as long as it's legal, it's none of our business, is the only right answer. In other words, don't foist your moralities on me. If one doesn't agree with the collective body's definition of "fair chase", one can only lobby to have it changed.
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