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Post by firstwd on Nov 12, 2007 13:08:16 GMT -5
The following views are not necessarily those of the owners and operators of this site. www.huntingindiana.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=coanswers&action=display&thread=1194872117What you received to your question was the correct answer and a statement of opinion based in science. While you are correct, bucks eat the same things that does eat, shooting a few bucks will do virtually nothing toward the reduction of crop damage. Shooting does have a effect that reaches years down the road in attempting to reduce the deer herd and thus reducing the damage. Beyond the limited usefulness that depredation permits provide the farmers shooting as many does during the regular season will go a long way in the endeavor. If there is to be any real change in the amount of crop damaged done by wildlife there has to be a societal change. Farm land and woodlots have to stop being turned into housing developments and shopping malls. Interstates have to stop being built through prime wildlife habitat, and hunter's have to put forth every effort to maintain the number of deer in the state. The taking of female deer is the only way to effective control and reduce the number of deer being added to the herd every year. Was Buster out of line for answering you question the way he did? Absolutely not. He gave you fact and his professional opinion to a better solution to help the farmer you were asking to help.
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Post by danf on Nov 12, 2007 13:14:28 GMT -5
Actually, I believe that dmd was not the original question poster. I believe it was hoosieroutdoorsman on this thread: www.huntingindiana.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=coanswers&action=display&thread=1194700410I do agree with you however, and was thinking the same thing. I was wishing, however, that a reply could have been posted in the same thread/forum as the "out of line" statement was made..... I understand why Woody has it set up that way though, and it's fine the way it is. I've got a feeling this thread may open up a debate on the merits of depredation permits, but we'll see.
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Post by Sleazy E on Nov 12, 2007 13:38:48 GMT -5
I saw that thread... and wished that I could have posted a response..... but it is best that I could not... first you put it much better than I would have... and you were much nicer about it than I would have been.... While dmd felt that the answer was out of line... I feel that dmd's thread was both rude and unnecessarily hostile .... so again it is a good thing that I could not post a reply.... because I was sure to get a modding for my less than articulate and PC nature.
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Post by dbd870 on Nov 12, 2007 15:32:18 GMT -5
I too felt dmd was off on his reaction. I assume buster's point was the same as firstwd's although I think buster got his sexes reversed at one point. In any case I agree with firstwd's assesment of the situation and I agree buster was giving good advice.
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Post by duff on Nov 12, 2007 15:35:14 GMT -5
Silly comment on dmd's part. Maybe he misunderstood Buster's reply. The original question sounded like the landowner was confused on how those tags can be used. Buster's reply covered it well. Buster never said it was the law or against the rules to shoot bucks just letting a guy know the depredation tags are not the same as regular season hunting tags. Then let his opinion be known on shooting bucks. It was just that and nothing more. He gave the specific rules a landowne/hunter using dep. tags needs to follow to comply with the rules.
Based on on the volunteer corn and beans I saw sprout this fall, I would think the farmers would be more interested in fixing the real problem of harvest equipment effeciency then a few animals eating the grain.
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Post by dadfsr on Nov 12, 2007 17:27:48 GMT -5
I took a look at dmd's post and immediately dismissed it just because it was too hard to read. It would certainly help if he would learn how to spell and proof it before he hits "send"! That being said I still feel he was way out of line with what he did try to post.
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dmd
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by dmd on Nov 16, 2007 11:17:43 GMT -5
you guys don't get it. depredation permits are not for herd control. they are for damage control. herd control is done during hunting season. damage control is done during growing season.
buster gave bad advice and he knows it.
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Post by dadfsr on Nov 16, 2007 11:41:21 GMT -5
and herd controll/crop damage reduction don't go hand in hand??? Sorry dmd you still don't get it! Taking does out will take care of both and your comment was still way out of line!
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dmd
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by dmd on Nov 16, 2007 12:37:41 GMT -5
you certainly have a right to your opinion, no matter how ill-informed it might be. the fact is, whether you like it or not, that the depredation permits are strictly about controlling and preventing deer damage to actively growing crops at the time in which the damage is ocurring. herd control takes place during hunting seasons and certainly can help prevent future damage, but it does nothing to prevent damage as it happens. that is why you can kill bucks on the depredation permits. oh, i'm sure antler worshippers don't like that...but hey.. that's life. i would expect a professional law enforcement officer to understand and explain this instead of furthering the misguided notion that depredation permit holders should not shoot bucks.
now...as i said earlier, i'll pass the bucks feeding in my beans next June if buster or any of you others are willing to compensate me for my loss.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Nov 16, 2007 12:54:39 GMT -5
dmd: I am about as NOT an antler worshiper as you can find. As I stated, there is nothing "wrong"with killing bucks on a depredation permit.
BUT, if I had 3 DPs and I saw 6 Bucks and 6 Does - I'D SHOOT THE DOES simply because every doe = 2 (or more) deer next yeer.
No other reason.
If you don't see does, then don't shoot does. But it is a simple FACT that shooting does does more to decrease overall crop damage than shooting bucks.
Period.
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Post by chicobrownbear on Nov 16, 2007 12:55:33 GMT -5
dmd...
Hypothetical question here...
There are 5 bucks and 5 does in a bean field with their heads down eating beans. You have been issued 5 depredation permits by the authorities. Which five would you take?
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Post by swilk on Nov 16, 2007 13:01:46 GMT -5
I guess there are 2 ways to look at this .....
Scenario 1: For each permit kill whichever animal happens to eat the most. This will likely be the largest animal and in most cases a male animal. This will maximize damage control for this point in time.
Scenario 2: For each permit kill whichever animal will directly produce the most offspring. This will most certainly be the healthiest adult females. This will offer damage control for this point in time as well as maximize damage control in all future years.
So long as there are both male and female animals causing damage, I think scenario 2 makes more sense ....... unless you are just looking for an excuse to kill a buck.
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Post by duff on Nov 16, 2007 13:41:23 GMT -5
Buster did not say you can not shoot a buck he just said you should try to shoot does as it is more of a management tool. If you take that as bad advice, oh well. Not much to debate really.
I agree shoot the animals that are causing the damage. In traditional crops does are a better choice hands down. Tree farms are ideal example for buck control. Bucks rub the heck out of the saplings and fruit trees, ruin X-mas trees. Does will get the smaller ones, but not much for the bigger ones. Anyone see the tree farm up near Lafayette, they got it enclosed in 7 or 8 foot fence. I wonder why?
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dmd
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by dmd on Nov 16, 2007 13:41:36 GMT -5
how many times do i have to say this?... i'll type slowly this time so you can understand... depradation permits are not about preventing future damage. they are about preventing current damage to actively growing crops. killing half the deer currently doing the damage does me no good unless you or your antler worshipping brothers are gonna pay me the cost of the damage caused by leaving the bucks.. i kill'em all (within my permit allowance)
having said that i shoot the 5 that offer the best shot. call the private lands biologist. get another 10 permits (hell I might ask for another 20 permits) and go back the next time to get the other 5 or 6 or 10 deer. racks or no racks it doesn't matter they are all causing damage.
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Post by swilk on Nov 16, 2007 13:46:40 GMT -5
How many acres do you own? How many permits are you issued each year?
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dmd
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by dmd on Nov 16, 2007 13:48:50 GMT -5
i forgot there have been instances where we have intentionally taken does. we are down to the last 1 or 2 permits and still have several deer. in this instance, i will target does with fawns over bucks. other than that they are all considered equal when in the crosshairs of my .270
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Post by birddog on Nov 16, 2007 13:50:12 GMT -5
Question: What other states offer depredation permits for the taking of deer?
Don't blame the farmer who uses these permits, blame the IDNR for not putting on restrictions that limit bucks.
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Post by hornharvester on Nov 16, 2007 13:50:25 GMT -5
With the price of grains in todays market if these deer were eating into your paychecks some of you might think differently about killing bucks with depo permits. It cost the same to feed a doe as a buck and maybe the buck more.
Over 10 years ago a big farmer told me he figured it cost him around 500.00 of crop damage to feed each deer on his property and he farmed over 1500 acres. Put that amount into todays inflation and you can see what some of these farmers face in losses. How many of you would like to pony up that amount out of your paycheck?
We as deer hunters have put the buck on a pedestal when really its just another deer to feed.
I personally don't like depo permits but I understand their necessity and evidently so does the IDNR or they would put restrictions on shooting bucks, other than you cant keep the antlers, which is not enforced that I know of.
Don't blame the farmer who uses these permits, blame the IDNR for not putting on restrictions that limit bucks. h.h.
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Post by dbd870 on Nov 16, 2007 13:56:55 GMT -5
Why would you not want to use them to do both? By making taking does a priority you reduce both a current and a future problem or problems; it seems to do otherwise is illogical.
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Post by duff on Nov 16, 2007 13:58:20 GMT -5
With the price of grains in todays market if these deer were eating into your paychecks some of you might think differently about killing bucks with depo permits. It cost the same to feed a doe as a buck and maybe the buck more. Over 10 years ago a big farmer told me he figured it cost him around 500.00 of crop damage to feed each deer on his property and he farmed over 1500 acres. Put that amount into todays inflation and you can see what some of these farmers face in losses. How many of you would like to pony up that amount out of your paycheck? We as deer hunters have put the buck on a pedestal when really its just another deer to feed. I personally don't like depo permits but I understand their necessity and evidently so does the IDNR or they would put restrictions on shooting bucks, other than you cant keep the antlers, which is not enforced that I know of. Don't blame the farmer who uses these permits, blame the IDNR for not putting on restrictions that limit bucks. h.h. How much does waste grain cost that doesn't get harvested due to ineffecient equipment? I have been in a few fields that you couldn't take 2 steps without finding whole ears of unpicked corn, not to mention this season all the volunteer corn and beans gave us an idea of how much grain is not picked. A person can't complain about the state not maintaining their equipment, but they sure can about a few deer...
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