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Post by Sasquatch on Feb 14, 2007 18:14:06 GMT -5
I have a nice polebarn. Timber frame, aluminum siding, metal roof with flush fiberglass skylights. The barn has full size sliding doors on both sides.
It has a dirt floor. My question is, how practical would it be to have a concrete floor poured in it now? Would it be too expensive?
A concrete floor would turn a good barn into a great one.
Any builders on here?
Thanks.
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 14, 2007 19:34:25 GMT -5
Tell me the size and location,, I'll give you a price.. ;D How tall are the door openings?
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Post by Sasquatch on Feb 14, 2007 19:36:26 GMT -5
Madison, IN 60' long 30' wide!
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Post by chicobrownbear on Feb 14, 2007 20:20:02 GMT -5
It wouldn't be too bad. THey can even pump it in if there isn't a good spot for the truck to park. THat would be a haul for you Pigeon.
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Post by solohunter on Feb 14, 2007 20:21:24 GMT -5
What are you planning to use it for? If you do it, add a couple drains..... Solohunter
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Post by danf on Feb 14, 2007 20:46:56 GMT -5
Putting the floor in now won't be too bad.
The biggest concern is making sure you have good floor drainage. And make sure you have expansion joint around the poles.
Material cost should be $2-3k (haven't priced concrete in a while), figuring a 6" slab (which may be a little excessive, depending on what you want to do in there), you are looking at 33 yards of concrete. I'm not a concrete guy, but you should be able to get it installed for $2000-$2500 on the labor and equipment, plus the materials. And what I'm guessing may be on the high side. Less than that if you do the prep work and just have someone pour and finish it. Don't hold me to the costs I'm quoting though!!
A skidsteer or a buggy or two can be used to haul the mud in, if you don't have good access from all sides. A pump would probably be WAY overkill.
HTH.
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Post by Sasquatch on Feb 14, 2007 20:49:24 GMT -5
Well, I'd like to set it up to hang deer, which it could do fine now. I also use it presently as a wind-free area to tweak my bow. Boy, is that handy.
Mostly I'd just like to keep the dust down, and make a dryer, cleaner storage area.Yeah, I'd have a couple of drains put in.
The doors go all the way to where the roof begins.
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Post by danf on Feb 14, 2007 20:54:35 GMT -5
If you aren't wanting to park anything real heavy in it, 4-5 inches of mud should be plenty.
I'd figure on 5 inches which means a little less than 28 yards. You'll need to order three trucks whether you use 4 inches or 5, so pour the extra inch and get a little more piece of mind.
Can you do the prep work?
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Post by cambygsp on Feb 15, 2007 5:30:51 GMT -5
If you do it, add a couple drains..... Solohunter YES YES YES! I can't tell you how many drains we add for folks each year. Cutting OUT the concrete and adding the drains and putting concrete BACK is quite salty, Do it prior to puring the floor it money saved, because you will want a drain. I think most of the time when they build pole barns, they pour the floor last, it shouldnt be any more expensive, and lots of concrete guys are looking for inside work in the winter.
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Post by Hoosier Hunter on Feb 15, 2007 6:27:09 GMT -5
I'm the process of doing the same. County here told me NO NO NO to any type of floor drains. Personally I don't see what the big issue is. If it doesn't run out the drain to the outside it'll just run out the doors.
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Post by nodog on Feb 15, 2007 9:24:52 GMT -5
There are codes. One is a rat wall around the perimeter 24"'s down. Critters do dig under it. The drains are a no to keep oil products out of the water system. Can go into a catch. They do use them all the time. Auto shops must do something.
Concrete and metal is a no no. Metal will get eaten up.. Protect it. Needs a 4" stone base and a vapor barrier on top of that will keep moister down in the building. Will slow the cure time of the crete though. All kinds of chemicals are available for crete.
Just a thought. You could put some radiant tubing in the floor when pouring, hook a hot water heater up to it with a circulate and have a heated space. You don't have to do the whole thing. You also don't have to crete the whole thing at once although the rat wall is supposed to be continuous.
Sounds like a nice building. The phrase "it ain't in concrete" is said for a reason. Keep cost in mind, but for a little more you could have a nice, warm, floor.
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Post by biggame75 on Feb 15, 2007 13:26:27 GMT -5
Try taking a few sheets of metal off the sides to get the concrete shoot inside. It SUCKS to try and wheelbarrow concrete from front to back exspecialy if you have pea-gravel for subgrade material. Pump truck would be quite exspensive. $125 an hour, $2.50 per yard, Depending on distance of travel at least $150 in mobilization fees. 22 yards for 4" thick which would be enough for cars, $2000 in concrete material. Be sure and cut a couple of control joints 1" thick to control cracking. Don't use fiber mesh concrete. It is a waist of money. There is no structural strenghth in the fibers. It only helps control cracking during the cureing process. Use wire mesh and a standard 4000 p.s.i. mix. If you pour in the summer, keep the slab wet for a couple of days. This will help it to cure slower and control cracking. If your pouring it in the winter, cover it with some type of insulated blankets or keep slight heat in the building to keep it from freezing ( 4"-5" thick will not generate enough heat to keep from freezing, if temperatures are below freezing). You will definately enjoy a concrete slab.
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Post by steiny on Feb 15, 2007 19:01:55 GMT -5
You've got big sliding doors so you ought to be able to pour right out of the truck. Install floor drains wherever you want them and just bury a pipe and extend it out the sidewall. You can tie into something later, or if your just out on the farm and all you'll ever have is a little hose water, etc., just let it dump out on the ground. Get it graded out real good and level and rent or borrow a plate compactor to compact the sub-grade real good, add some crushed stone if necessary so you have a uniform slab thickness. 4" Thick will be fine for automobiles and lighter, if tractors and heavy trucks, go 6" thick. Lay down a visqueen vapor barrier before pouring to keep the floor from sweating and reinforce it with a layer of welded wire mesh, 10ga mesh if 4" slab, 6ga if 6" slab. Don't use that fibermesh cr@p mixed in the concrete, it is a poor substitute for reinforcement. Order 3,500 or 4,000 PSI mix concrete.
If you aren't experienced at this, hire a couple finishers to place and finish the slab, and have them do a nice burned in, smooth trowel finish so it's slick and easy to sweep. Have them spray apply a coat of cure-N-seal immediately after pouring and sawcut control joints in the slab to dictate where it cracks at, about 15' x 15' saw cut spacing for a 4" slab and 20' max for a 6"slab. If it's already froze in there, do not pour over it. Get some heat in there first and thaw the sub-grade first. Also have to protect freshly poured concrete from freezing. I'd probably just wait till she warms up a bit in the spring and you won't have to worry. Give some thought to your door openings also. A little sloped edge at the doors keeps rain water from running in.
Bottom line ..... If you can swing it, just pay a professional to do the job. You won't regret it later. Oh yeah .... and don't hire anybody that refers to it as "mud", "crete", or "cement", as they likely don't know what in they heck they are doing. You want a "reinforced concrete floor slab".
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Post by Sasquatch on Feb 15, 2007 20:06:42 GMT -5
WOW! This site is a wonderful resource. Lot's of good advice here. It's good to here from people who have already done this; many problems can be avoided.
Forum participation at it's very best. Thank you everyone that responded or will respond.
FYI.... I'll probably only park a light vehicle in there, if any.
Trivia: They say the hoover dam is still curing... and may be wet near the middle!
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Post by Hoosier Hunter on Feb 15, 2007 20:24:26 GMT -5
I know a place in Seymour that mixes on site. I seen the truck and it has the capability to be pumped. Their price is the same as the big rigs that come premixed.
Yeah they say concrete never fully cures but the contractors I deal with at work say it's 80% at 28 days.
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Post by lugnutz on Feb 15, 2007 21:44:30 GMT -5
I had Tru-Built, out of Marion Ill, build my pole barn 40x108' they did a crappy job, but then again it was 20,000 less than having Morton build it.
I didn't have drains put in (for some reason) i wish now that they had. It would be easier to use the garden hose to spray the blood and mud off the floor. I went the cheaper route and had 4 inch poured, even though i've got a dump truck parked in their.
You should be able to get a cheaper rate at this time of year compared to spring and summer months.
Good Luck!!
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Post by danf on Feb 15, 2007 23:22:34 GMT -5
Oh yeah .... and don't hire anybody that refers to it as "mud", "crete", or "cement", as they likely don't know what in they heck they are doing. I would have to disagree with this statement. It may be true in some cases, but as a rule it's not valid. I'll freely admit that I'll call it "mud" and I don't know what I'm doing. However, I do know several guys that *do* know what they are doing and that's how they refer to it at times. It's a simple slang term, widely used in the industry. You do want to stress that you do want it re-inforced with wire mesh, regardless of who you have finish it!
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Post by nodog on Feb 16, 2007 8:11:41 GMT -5
Bottom line ..... If you can swing it, just pay a professional to do the job. You won't regret it later. Oh yeah .... and don't hire anybody that refers to it as "mud", "crete", or "cement", as they likely don't know what in they heck they are doing. You want a "reinforced concrete floor slab". Guys that do the work call it worse and sometimes even mention it's parents as well. ;D
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Post by huxbux on Feb 16, 2007 8:51:42 GMT -5
It'll take a 14' tall door to get most any concrete truck inside. A 12' high opening is too short. 12' of chute is all most concrete companies will use on their discharge. Most concrete crews have skid loaders that can be used to get the concrete where the chute can't reach and that would probably be the most cost effective way to go. Taking off some siding to get a chute in from the side may turn out to be a chore. I highly recommend you use an experienced crew. Materials are too expensive to end up with a poor job. IMO you would be wise to wait until the ground is completely thawed and all danger of a hard freeze is past. Right now in central Indiana we have at least 12" of frost in the ground and probably more in most places.
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Post by danf on Feb 16, 2007 8:55:51 GMT -5
Guys that do the work call it worse and sometimes even mention it's parents as well. ;D And that's just the concrete! You don't even want to start in on what their *tools* have been called!!! ;D ;D
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