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Post by Decatur on Nov 7, 2006 13:47:14 GMT -5
Taken from the link MIG gave me in another post. I really don't understand why the rule change. I also don't understand why hogs are listed, then at the bottom it basically says you can shoot them?
312 IAC 9-3-18.5 Exotic mammals
Authority: IC 14-22-2-6; IC 14-22-32-6
Affected: IC 14-8-2-278; IC 14-22; IC 15-2.1-24
Sec. 18.5. (a) A person must not take, as defined by IC 14-8-2-278, an exotic mammal that is a species from any of the
following families of mammals:
(1) Bradypodidae (tree sloth).
(2) Bovidae (gazelle, bighorn sheep, antelope, and wildebeest), except for domestic cattle (genus Bos, including all dairy and
beef animals) and buffalo (Bison bison).
(3) Camelidae (camel and llama).
(4) Canidae (jackal, wild dog, and other exotic foxes).
(5) Cebidae (marmoset).
(6) Cercopithecidae (baboon and monkey).
(7) Cervidae (elk, moose, caribou, and other exotic deer).
(8) Dasypodidae (armadillo).
(9) Elephantidae (elephant).
(10) Equidae (wild horse and zebra), except for domestic horses.
(11) Felidae (mountain lion, lynx, tiger, and other exotic cats).
(12) Giraffidae (giraffe and okapi).
(13) Hippopotamidae (hippopotamus).
(14) Hyaenidae (hyaena).
(15) Macropodidae (kangaroo and wallaby).
(16) Myrmecophagidae (anteater).
(17) Orycteropodidae (aardvark).
(18) Pongidae (chimpanzee, bonobo, and gorilla).
(19) Procaviidae (hyrax).
(20) Protelidae (aardwolf).
(21) Rhinocerotidae (rhinoceros).
(22) Suidae (wild boar and other exotic swine), except for domestic swine. (23) Tapiridae (tapir).
(24) Tayassuidae (javelina and peccary).
(25) Tragulidae (chevrotain).
(26) Ursidae (bear).
(27) A hybrid or genetically altered mammal of any of these families.
Exempted from this section are the following species of mammals that are not considered to be exotic mammals: white-tailed deer,
bobcat, red fox, gray fox, and coyote.
(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a person may take an exotic mammal only if the exotic mammal is:
(1) taken by a resident landowner or tenant while causing damage to property that is owned or leased by the landowner or
tenant; or
(2) a species from the family:
(A) suidae and:
(i) has been released or escaped from captivity; or
(ii) is a member of a breeding population in the wild; or
(B) bovidae, camelidae, or cervidae and slaughtered in accordance with IC 15-2.1-24.
(c) A person may not possess an exotic mammal that is a species from a family listed in subsection (a) except as otherwise
provided by statute or this article.
(d) A person:
(1) may not release an exotic mammal that is a species from a family listed in subsection (a) into the wild in Indiana except
as otherwise provided by statute or this article; and
Indiana Administrative Code Page 20
FISH AND WILDLIFE
(2) must report the escape of any exotic mammal listed in subsection (a) to a conservation officer within twenty-four (24)
hours.
(e) As used in this rule, “exotic mammal” means a species that is:
(1) not native to Indiana; or
(2) extirpated from Indiana and either a:
(A) wild animal; or
(B) feral animal other than a dog or cat.
(Natural Resources Commission; 312 IAC 9-3-18.5; filed May 12, 2006, 10:38 a.m.: 29 IR 3346)
(taken from my other post)
These exotic species are becoming more and more prevalent in Indiana, and apparently escaping more often. At the Sportsman's Lodge in Decatur, I saw a picture of a Sika (sp) deer trying to mount a whitetail doe in the wild. It seems to me it would be much better to allow anyone to shoot these intruders on sight when the opportunity is presented, rather than eat up, all ready short staffed (in my opinion) Conservation Officers to hunt them down. I do not believe we should be allowed to hunt theses animals with high powered rifles, just be able to take them with any allowed deer hunting weapon. These invasive species are getting out of control, and do have the potential to mess up our native wildlife, whether through disease or cross breading. I do not agree with this new law at all.
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Post by kevin1 on Nov 7, 2006 14:44:10 GMT -5
I believe this rule change was aimed squarely at those who might want to set up a pic n' shoot in the future by denying them the chance to sell slaughtering rights to others . I agree that any exotic spotted in the wild should be immediately extirminated , though I'd rather that there was no established season for them such as during deer hunting . Treat them like the varmints that they are and blast them on sight at any time .
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Post by greghopper on Nov 7, 2006 17:32:46 GMT -5
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Post by Old Ironsights on Nov 7, 2006 23:11:37 GMT -5
Kevin1: I agree 100%
Decatur: As I read it, only a landowner or tenant can shoot a depredating feral hog. No-one else is allowed to. Pretty dumb.
This just means that the really ugly wild hog problem in MO will find its way into Southern Indiana sooner than later.
Though on a second reading the caviat "or is a member of a breedig population in the wild" would seem to open it up to pretty much any wild hog...
Ghod I hate the people who write this stuff. Ambiguity is the Bane of good lawmaking.
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Post by danf on Nov 8, 2006 6:52:32 GMT -5
So as I read that, if one of the locally pen-raised elk was to escape (I've been told that it's happened, and I know the buffalo farm has had escapes in the past) and come on to my property I could shoot it, if it was damaging my property...
Does leaving foot/hoofprints count as damaging property? ;D
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 8, 2006 6:58:02 GMT -5
I believe this rule change was aimed squarely at those who might want to set up a pic n' shoot in the future by denying them the chance to sell slaughtering rights to others . I agree that any exotic spotted in the wild should be immediately extirminated , though I'd rather that there was no established season for them such as during deer hunting . Treat them like the varmints that they are and blast them on sight at any time . DITTO... We have been told by our local conservation officers to shoot any hog on sight. It does nort matter what you shoot them with or what is in season at the time. We can kill them any which way we want. This regulation is aimed at the preserves, NOT in the wild. If I see a fallow deer like the one greendeem got he is going down. . |
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Post by Decatur on Nov 8, 2006 7:16:34 GMT -5
I believe this rule change was aimed squarely at those who might want to set up a pic n' shoot in the future by denying them the chance to sell slaughtering rights to others . I agree that any exotic spotted in the wild should be immediately extirminated , though I'd rather that there was no established season for them such as during deer hunting . Treat them like the varmints that they are and blast them on sight at any time . DITTO... We have been told by our local conservation officers to shoot any hog on sight. It does nort matter what you shoot them with or what is in season at the time. We can kill them any which way we want. This regulation is aimed at the preserves, NOT in the wild. If I see a fallow deer like the one greendeem got he is going down.That would be breaking the law as MIG tells it. |
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 8, 2006 7:42:27 GMT -5
DITTO... We have been told by our local conservation officers to shoot any hog on sight. It does nort matter what you shoot them with or what is in season at the time. We can kill them any which way we want. This regulation is aimed at the preserves, NOT in the wild. If I see a fallow deer like the one greendeem got he is going down.That would be breaking the law as MIG tells it. Again, I do believe that this rule is directed at the preserves and not in the wild. Did Greendeem break the law? I dont think so. I'll even bet that the COS are instructed to shoot these "exotics" on sight. If they can, so can we. . . |
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Post by Decatur on Nov 8, 2006 7:46:45 GMT -5
I agree Woody, but MIG siad in my second question, "to let a CO handle it".
I'm so confused! (Vinny Barbarino)
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 8, 2006 8:16:58 GMT -5
I've requested a clarification from the IDNR..
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Post by Decatur on Nov 8, 2006 8:18:44 GMT -5
Thank you!
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Post by Russ Koon on Nov 8, 2006 8:22:52 GMT -5
Sounds like we could sure use some clarification. Maybe we need to ask the ICO, and asking a lawyer probably would be a good idea, too.
I suspect you're right, Woody, in regards to intent. However, the guy who gets busted for shooting a hog or escaped elk or other exotic might still end up paying a large fine and losing his hunting privileges if the local CO doesn't see it the same way, and the local court agrees with the CO.
Heard rumors of some escaped elk roaming a golf course I've been visiting recently. The same rumor has it that the DNR told someone locally that they could shoot the elk on sight, since they were escaped exotics. No mention of property damage. Of course, there are also rumors of man-eating size catfish, Bigfoot, and black panthers. Hard for us to sort out which are true.
Seems to me like the state could at least clarify our legal position ifthey want the exotics to be removed from the wild. Right now, much as I'd like to, I don't think I'd risk shooting one unless I had the OK in writing.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 8, 2006 8:57:38 GMT -5
.................Of course, there are also rumors of man-eating size catfish, Bigfoot, and black panthers. Hard for us to sort out which are true. Are you saying that there are no "man-eating size catfish, Bigfoot, and black panthers"??  I have asked for clarification. What to enforce and what not should not be just up to the determination of a local CO and a local judge. It should be in black and white in no uncertain terms. We will see.... . |
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 14, 2006 12:23:45 GMT -5
The answer from the IDNR...
Mr. Williams,
The rule related to this discussion is below. I have bolded the print that applies to your question. In the rule you will see that the taking of exotics is prohibited with a couple of minor exceptions.
1) Resident landowners or tenant of property may take the animals listed while the animal is in the act of causing depredation to property that they own or lease and
2) Persons other than landowners may apply for a free nuisance animal control permit but must have that permit in possession prior to taking one of the listed species.
3) This prohibition does not apply to sworn law enforcement officers while in performance of their duties not does it apply to members of the species know as suidae (wild or feral pigs) that are free ranging. The taking of members of the suidae family within enclosures is still prohibited.
As you may know this rule was developed to stop the hunting of these species within enclosures. That is where the listed species occur for the most part. We are also aware that these species can and do escape those enclosure from time to time. We do our best to make sure that the permitted enclosures are adequate for holding the animal however trees fall and other things happen that allow escapes to take place.
Our perspective is that the limitations of this rule are reasonable and we encourage persons that encounter problems with the listed species to make contact with their local conservation officer for the officer’s advice regarding staying in compliance with this rule.
I hope this information answers any questions that the visitors to your forum may have. If not, feel free to contact us for further clarification.
Lt. Col. Michael Crider
312 IAC 9-3-18.5 Exotic mammals
Authority: IC 14-22-2-6; IC 14-22-32-6
Affected: IC 14-8-2-278; IC 14-22; IC 15-2.1-24
Sec. 18.5. (a) A person must not take, as defined by IC 14-8-2-278, an exotic mammal that is a species from any of the following families of mammals:
(1) Bradypodidae (tree sloth).
(2) Bovidae (gazelle, bighorn sheep, antelope, and wildebeest), except for domestic cattle (genus Bos, including all dairy and
beef animals) and buffalo (Bison bison).
(3) Camelidae (camel and llama).
(4) Canidae (jackal, wild dog, and other exotic foxes).
(5) Cebidae (marmoset).
(6) Cercopithecidae (baboon and monkey).
(7) Cervidae (elk, moose, caribou, and other exotic deer).
(8) Dasypodidae (armadillo).
(9) Elephantidae (elephant).
(10) Equidae (wild horse and zebra), except for domestic horses.
(11) Felidae (mountain lion, lynx, tiger, and other exotic cats).
(12) Giraffidae (giraffe and okapi).
(13) Hippopotamidae (hippopotamus).
(14) Hyaenidae (hyaena).
(15) Macropodidae (kangaroo and wallaby).
(16) Myrmecophagidae (anteater).
(17) Orycteropodidae (aardvark).
(18) Pongidae (chimpanzee, bonobo, and gorilla).
(19) Procaviidae (hyrax).
(20) Protelidae (aardwolf).
(21) Rhinocerotidae (rhinoceros).
(22) Suidae (wild boar and other exotic swine), except for domestic swine.
(23) Tapiridae (tapir).
(24) Tayassuidae (javelina and peccary).
(25) Tragulidae (chevrotain).
(26) Ursidae (bear).
(27) A hybrid or genetically altered mammal of any of these families.
Exempted from this section are the following species of mammals that are not considered to be exotic mammals: white-tailed deer,
bobcat, red fox, gray fox, and coyote.
(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a person may take an exotic mammal only if the exotic mammal is:
(1) taken by a resident landowner or tenant while causing damage to property that is owned or leased by the landowner or
tenant; or
(2) a species from the family:
(A) suidae and:
(i) has been released or escaped from captivity; or
(ii) is a member of a breeding population in the wild; or
(B) bovidae, camelidae, or cervidae and slaughtered in accordance with IC 15-2.1-24.
(c) A person may not possess an exotic mammal that is a species from a family listed in subsection (a) except as otherwise
provided by statute or this article.
(d) A person:
(1) may not release an exotic mammal that is a species from a family listed in subsection (a) into the wild in Indiana except
as otherwise provided by statute or this article; and
FISH AND WILDLIFE
Indiana Administrative Code Page 21
(2) must report the escape of any exotic mammal listed in subsection (a) to a conservation officer within twenty-four (24)
hours.
(e) As used in this rule, “exotic mammal” means a species that is:
(1) not native to Indiana; or
(2) extirpated from Indiana and either a:
(A) wild animal; or
(B) feral animal other than a dog or cat.
(Natural Resources Commission; 312 IAC 9-3-18.5; filed May 12, 2006, 10:38 a.m.: 29 IR 3346)
IC 14-8-2-278
"Take"
Sec. 278. "Take" has the following meaning:
(1) For purposes of IC 14-22, except as provided in subdivision (2):
(A) to kill, shoot, spear, gig, catch, trap, harm, harass, or pursue a wild animal; or
(B) to attempt to engage in such conduct.
(2) For purposes of IC 14-22-34, the meaning set forth in IC 14-22-34-5.
As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.1.
IC 14-22-34-5
"Take" defined
Sec. 5. As used in this chapter, "take" means to:
(1) harass, hunt, capture, or kill; or
(2) attempt to harass, hunt, capture, or kill;
wildlife.
As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.15.
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Post by Decatur on Nov 14, 2006 12:27:01 GMT -5
That cleared up nothing! I already new you could kill hogs. What about other animals, like the fallow deer? Typical IDNR, avoid the question, and be as ambiguous as possible. Thanks for trying Woody.
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Post by paul3 on Nov 14, 2006 12:39:49 GMT -5
You can kill anything if you think its trying to hurt you.
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Post by RiverJim on Nov 14, 2006 13:19:05 GMT -5
That cleared up nothing! I already new you could kill hogs. What about other animals, like the fallow deer? Typical IDNR, avoid the question, and be as ambiguous as possible. Thanks for trying Woody. How about this for non clarity...... From page 15 of the hunting and trapping guide....... The person who takes the deer must CAUSE the delivery of the der to an offical check station within 48 hours of the kill........ So does that mean i can put it in the ol lady trunk and lie in wait by the check station and make her turn into the chack station by pulling out in front of her? Or maybe fed-ex it to the check station? What the he!! is CAUSE the delivery? And on page 3 the daily bag limit says to "see page 14".......BUT page 14 says NOTHING about a daily bag limit!  I posted these questions on the ask a co area and everyone around my post got answered BUT mine? Whaz up wit dat? |
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Post by Decatur on Nov 14, 2006 13:21:13 GMT -5
lol
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Post by dec on Nov 14, 2006 13:33:01 GMT -5
I can tell you this, I really could care less what the IAC says about exotics. Not that it will ever happen, but a hog, fallow, sika, or other exotic walks past my stand ... it's dead. Plain and simple, no questions asked. They need to be removed from the wild in Indiana. I'd shoot it, load it up, and no one would see pictures of it. Heck, I don't care if it's deer season or not, an exotic is as good as dead if it is in range of me on land that I have permission to hunt on.
I'm typically a "by the book" guy when it comes to the DNR and their rules, but this one is ridiculous.
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Post by Decatur on Nov 14, 2006 13:51:40 GMT -5
For once Dec, I agree with you whole heartedly! ;d
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