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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 3, 2006 10:44:40 GMT -5
Kirk,
Other than the DAC was any public input given in the past about county bonus limits?
It is never in the Admistrative Rules Process is it?
I thought that was Jim's area to do as he saw fit?
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 3, 2006 11:10:13 GMT -5
Whatever JKD.....whatever
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 3, 2006 11:16:51 GMT -5
It's just a prime example of "well they didn't ask us"....lol
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Post by mudstrider on Aug 3, 2006 12:25:38 GMT -5
We will only hunt, kill, gut, drag out, skin, process and eat so many deer a year and then it becomes WORK. Woody's got a point. Last year, after 3 does in a week's time, I really backed off hunting because the fun/work ratio was tilting in the wrong direction. For 99% of us, there probably are just too many hindrances to going out and killing a lot of does. Time, energy and money being the top three, maybe. |
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Post by jkd on Aug 3, 2006 15:44:43 GMT -5
Mbogo - get your reg booklet out... THERE IS NO STATEWIDE LIMIT ON ANTLERLESS DEER IN INDIANA THIS SEASON!!!! (obviously the technical limit would be calculated by adding up the bonus quota for every county, plus military/refuge, plus parks depredation, plus urban zone... but there is no 4+4 straight limit like last year... "you may take as many antlerless deer as you like...") Since I'm the one that proposed a county-by-county bonus system at a DAC meeting many years back (based on a similar system used in Virginia)... yes, I "buy into the reasoning..." Woody - I don't remember specifically if the bonus/county system was discussed at other meetings, as that's been what... 7-8 years or more, but I do remember that up until recently, Jim Mitchell, Glenn Lange and John Olson set up something like three meetings statewide (north, central, south) each year to gather input on deer management issues, so I think the bonus thing was likely presented, but that would be a question for Jim or John... I think you're right about the actual county-by-county quotas... they weren't part of an official NRC (or IAC) action... I think NRC delegated authority to IDNR to set the quotas, and then in turn Jim was specifically tasked with establishing the actual figures. When DAC was operational, he always had a draft map for us to look over at the January/February meeting for comments, along with the county breakdown of harvest numbers and accident reports. I don't know if he presented those same draft maps at the regional meetings per se, but I do know they asked people for input as to whether they thought they had too many/too few deer in their local areas. I agree with your e-mail regarding what Lance told us... I guess I just have a problem with economic factors (dollars=tags) being the replacement for bag limits. I also think at some point, IDNR needs to take a break from making major changes every year and let the impact on the herd and harvest numbers have time to settle down... otherwise, I'm not sure how you attribute changes in the figures to a given factor (e.g. your argument regarding OBR, which I don't know if I agree has been proven statistically, but it darn sure has merit...) Camby - glad I could provide you with amusement.... now how about a straight answer to the fundamental question: are you saying you think it's a good idea for IDNR to make admin rules WITHOUT ANY input from hunters or the general public?  ? I've also not heard any explanation as to why getting rid of the deer bag limit was necessary, simiplification or not... |
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 3, 2006 16:13:22 GMT -5
Well lets just say this.........when you think you've shot enough doe deer, shoot another......lol
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Post by solohunter on Aug 3, 2006 16:50:14 GMT -5
I will keep hunting/killing as long as I have a tag and the season is not over. For us putting as much quality meat in the freezer goes beyond deer season/hunting. We do our own vegetables, our own eggs, burn firewood etc. I guess I am off topic, but I recall a thread not to long ago about "providing" or something close to that. If I can kill 10 deer and still get as excited about it, then why not? Is the butchering a chore, somewhat, but that is part of the whole process. I recently posted about looking at meat in a store, it is not as fulfilling when we buy it. How many guys here say "hey ma don't can another tomato, doesn't look as fun as the first?"
Solohunter
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 3, 2006 19:14:22 GMT -5
Dang.....I read that no one hunts for substanance (sp?).....lol...............What was it I read....."they THINK it's cheaper"
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Post by buddylee on Aug 3, 2006 19:22:09 GMT -5
Dang.....I read that no one hunts for substanance (sp?).....lol...............What was it I read....."they THINK it's cheaper" If you've got your own place where you can walk out the back door and hunt and process it yourself meat doesn't get any cheaper than that. The price of one slug. "Tomatoes and deer"? I don't see the correlation?? |
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 3, 2006 19:27:31 GMT -5
Dang.....I read that no one hunts for substanance (sp?).....lol...............What was it I read....."they THINK it's cheaper" If you've got your own place where you can walk out the back door and hunt and process it yourself meat doesn't get any cheaper than that. I Agree! |
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Post by solohunter on Aug 3, 2006 19:31:50 GMT -5
Dang.....I read that no one hunts for substanance (sp?).....lol...............What was it I read....."they THINK it's cheaper" If you've got your own place where you can walk out the back door and hunt and process it yourself meat doesn't get any cheaper than that. The price of one slug. "Tomatoes and deer"? I don't see the correlation?? Fresh tomatos and deer chunks..man...Solo |
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Post by mbogo on Aug 11, 2006 12:41:04 GMT -5
To be more precise jkd, what you mean is not that their isn't a limit, it is that the limit is higher than what the IDHA thinks it should be, correct?
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Post by indianadan on Aug 11, 2006 15:35:40 GMT -5
Mbogo~~I don't think I'd even go that far. It seems the problem with this is that certain people are upset this wasn't run by them or their particular organization before it was put into effect.  |
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Post by tenring on Aug 11, 2006 17:05:33 GMT -5
Quite a number of years ago, I had the occasion to be involved in a small group discussion in a parking lot after a DNR rules get together. A high ranking DNR person was there so I decided to pop a real live hot question that it seemed no one ever thought to ask or was too scared to ask. Question was, " Off the record, does the illegal deer kill in Indiana equal or exceed the reported kill?" Reply was, "if anything, it exceeds the legal kill." I would hope some the more "knowlegeable" folks who post here might care to comment on the effect this has on the scheme of things and if they think that this "hidden" kill possibly continues to this day.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2006 17:16:35 GMT -5
Quite a number of years ago, I had the occasion to be involved in a small group discussion in a parking lot after a DNR rules get together. A high ranking DNR person was there so I decided to pop a real live hot question that it seemed no one ever thought to ask or was too scared to ask. Question was, " Off the record, does the illegal deer kill in Indiana equal or exceed the reported kill?" Reply was, "if anything, it exceeds the legal kill." I would hope some the more "knowlegeable" folks who post here might care to comment on the effect this has on the scheme of things and if they think that this "hidden" kill possibly continues to this day. What a question! I don't profess to be one of the more knowledgable on here but I'm going to guess that the answer would be no. I base that on the pure number of hunters in the woods today as opposed to way back when. I 'think' we have done a pretty good job of policing our own ranks and with more of us out there the bigger chance that a poacher can get caught.The bigger chance he has of getting caught the less likely he will do the deed. Heck, some folks even accuse people that kill big ones legally of cheating now. Now on the flip side there are probably a LOT more getting bumped off by cars now since we have roads we here we didn't before and there are so many more deer. I've seen some deer/auto accident reports but that doesn't tell the whole story as not all deer/auto accidents are even reported. Please understand that this is all speculation and guesswork on my part. I am very interested in what the others have to say on this question. Thanks for bringing it up. |
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 11, 2006 17:18:54 GMT -5
I'm not "knowledgeable" , but I wouldn't think the number of poached deer comes anywhere near the number of legally taken ones . If the poached number was truly higher our P&Y and B&C rankings would drop noticeably . Poaching outside the established seasons is a very noticeable activity , so poachers would most likely wait until the gunfire is heaviest to camoflage their own activity . Since there's no practical way to guage poaching we'll never know how many there really are , but I would bet that poaching isn't nearly as prevalent as most folks seem to think it is .
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Post by tenring on Aug 11, 2006 17:54:15 GMT -5
Theoretical [hypothetical] situation- southern Indiana, farm country, not that many people out in the sticks, "economically depressed area" according to Mitch, houses few and far between, lot of folks work outside the home, farm at night, weekends, etc. Target shooting all the time on weekends, so gunfire raises no eyebrows at any time of the year. Lot of tractors have centerfire rifles on board, if it's brown, it's down. Had more than one farmer tell me[during the hey day of the high population period] that they "got rid" of at least 20 or more of those damn things. It many areas deer are considered pests, no different than a groundhog. Had one tell me it didn't matter what manner of take I preferred, would not check my truck to see how many I had, come down in the spring, summer, did not matter to him. If I did not want them for the freezer, informed me of some deep ditches to throw them into. Naturally I smiled, thanked him for allowing me to hunt on his land, but stuck to the rules. Stick your head in the sand if you will and pretend it doesn't happen, but it does. Not right, but it still goes on. How does the CO stop this? Good question, but if all the neighbors in one area do it, who is going to drop the dime?
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 11, 2006 18:16:52 GMT -5
Theoretical [hypothetical] situation- southern Indiana, farm country, not that many people out in the sticks, "economically depressed area" according to Mitch, houses few and far between, lot of folks work outside the home, farm at night, weekends, etc. Target shooting all the time on weekends, so gunfire raises no eyebrows at any time of the year. Lot of tractors have centerfire rifles on board, if it's brown, it's down. Had more than one farmer tell me[during the hey day of the high population period] that they "got rid" of at least 20 or more of those dang things. It many areas deer are considered pests, no different than a groundhog. Had one tell me it didn't matter what manner of take I preferred, would not check my truck to see how many I had, come down in the spring, summer, did not matter to him. If I did not want them for the freezer, informed me of some deep ditches to throw them into. Naturally I smiled, thanked him for allowing me to hunt on his land, but stuck to the rules. Stick your head in the sand if you will and pretend it doesn't happen, but it does. Not right, but it still goes on. How does the CO stop this? Good question, but if all the neighbors in one area do it, who is going to drop the dime? If what you say is true , then it should be you dropping that dime since you have knowledge of illegal activity . If you don't then you are not a true conservator of wildlife . There is no shame in doing what's right , and I would gladly sacrifice access to kill poaching that I knew was occuring . I can always find somewhere else to hunt without condoning poaching , you can too . Drop that dime before those jerks destroy what you and I hold dear , they obviously have different values from us and they will kill what we love with no regard for real biology . Ignorance of biology has doomed more species than any other single factor . |
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Post by racktracker on Aug 11, 2006 20:17:47 GMT -5
I think at one time that was true about the illegal kill being more than the legal kill.
I also agree that we are doing a good job of turning in poachers when we see one. How bad is it now? Who really knows? We do hear of a bust every now and then.
Poaching in the older days usually was done with a wink and a nod. In fact some poachers were even looked up to. No more.
I do NOT want to start another OBR war, but the more hunting restrictions we have the more poaching will occur. For the life of me I can not see anyone poaching a doe, but a second buck??? I'm sure that has happened and will continue to happen.
No, I do not know of anyone that has done it so I can't "drop a dime on them". Common sense says it is happening.
Piece of paper tags and going to a telecheck and/or computer check in will make it worse.
IMHO....
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Post by tenring on Aug 11, 2006 21:06:53 GMT -5
I have dropped the dime, but being the "sober fool in a room full of drunks" and not owning acres of soybeans that get eaten down to the ground, one can only due so much. Have heard one young man tell me that he would shoot any deer he found in his clover field because he felt they ate as much as two round bales [the large ones] that at the time was worth $20 apiece. Reached for my wallet to offer him reimbursment, but he declined. Did not even hunt near his field. Also told him as how he declined the offer, I would turn him in if I even thought he was making an illegal kill, and really didn't care what he thought about that.
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