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Post by bsutravis on Jul 28, 2006 14:21:08 GMT -5
This will probably be the next big issue when our State Reps come back to session.......so, what do you think, are you for or against all day kindergarten???
I'm all for it! Not for the selfish reasons that I will benefit from, but from the standpoint that our kids are lagging behind and could use the extra time early in their scholastic careers.
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Post by chicobrownbear on Jul 28, 2006 14:45:07 GMT -5
All for it. Kids that don't go to preschool or at least all day kindergarten have a big gap to fill when they hit first grade, and some of them will never bridge the gap. Granted some kids are smart and are just fine, but why risk that?
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 28, 2006 15:37:06 GMT -5
I'm against the concept of pushing kids deeper into the school system at an earlier age. Many of them would benefit by staying out a year and starting later; as far as being behind the education curve, I see it as more of a quality than a quantity issue.
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Post by danf on Jul 28, 2006 15:39:17 GMT -5
My wife is more up on the education system than probably most of us here (the guy who is the principal being an exception!). As a teacher, she sees a lot of studies on various thing. She is all for all-day kindergarten because it does help in the long run. My only concern is that it will be mandated without adequate funding, just like a lot of other programs. Not to mention the standardized testing that will go along with it. ISTEP needs to be replaced- badly. It's a good theory (standardized testing), but it's leading to a generation of kids who don't know how to think for themselves....
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Post by danf on Jul 28, 2006 15:47:04 GMT -5
Many would benefit by starting a year later? I don't buy that arguement one bit. The earlier a kid starts his/her education, the better off they will be.
My wife started kindergarten when she was 4. Not sure how exactly, but somehow that's how the cut-off worked back then. She was reading when she started kindergarten. She graduated from high school with nearly a 4.0, Purdue with a 4.0 (double major, finished in 4 years I might add), then just recently finished her master's with around a 3.97. Don't think she would have benefitted much by starting school a year later.
I didn't do nearly as well as she did, but starting me when I was 6 instead of 5 would not have helped at all. I too was reading when I started kindergarten, and was probably slightly above average all the way through school.
The earlier the education starts, the better off the kids will be. It's that simple. My wife can probably show you several studies that will back that up....
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 28, 2006 15:54:36 GMT -5
That is a good idea.
Mitch is pushing it so it will happen.
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Post by 911 on Jul 28, 2006 16:23:55 GMT -5
I am personallly against it to me its just a little to young to be throwing them into that situation. And i would bet 99% of kids would fall asleep on the bus on the way home.LOL I just think the parents need to get more involved instead of pawning them off on the school.
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Post by semisneak on Jul 28, 2006 16:58:32 GMT -5
I thought sullivan county already had all day kindergarten..?? In Parke county they go all day every other day to save on bus trips. I dont see it being a problem. The kids will probably take naps and play alot in between the education part. My only problem with it is Im not ready for my kids to grow up and be at school all day. My daughter starts half days in a couple weeks.
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Post by stinkychomper on Jul 28, 2006 17:09:51 GMT -5
A childs education from Pre Kindergarten to 3rd grade is the biggest factor on the rest of that childs academic life. There are many studies that show if a child is behind academically even as early as the second grade that they will likely not catch up. The state is very close to being able to afford all day kindergarten. If it is mandated it should be funded. There is also a push amongst some of our reps to pay for textbooks. We are one of 5 states that charge textbook rental
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Post by danf on Jul 28, 2006 17:32:51 GMT -5
The North Putnam school district started that a couple of years ago. Not sure if they are still doing it, but see no reason they won't. They didn't start it to save on bus trips; they did it because the school board decided to shorten the school day for grades 1-12, which then threw off the kindergarten schedule.
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Post by bsutravis on Jul 29, 2006 1:32:06 GMT -5
We are one of 5 states that charge textbook rental Just wrote the $127 check the other day for this years book fees....blah!
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Post by Russ Koon on Jul 29, 2006 2:18:02 GMT -5
Hmmm.......we have "many studies" done by the educational establishment to show that more of their product is good for us? Weren't there also many studies done some years back by educational establisments in the Carolinas telling us that tobacco wasn't harmful?
We also have testimony to the effect that early kindergarten was responsible for great educational performance by a very accomplished lady, and for the above average performance of her hubby. But in the same post, both are said to have been reading before going to kindergarten.......sounds to me like the involvement of parents/ siblings/ babysitters or whomever was responsible for their early development before they went to kindergarten deserves the greater part of the praise for them getting off to a good start.
I'm not necessarily against the idea, but I do recall some studies done on the Head Start program that strongly indicated that all the advantage gained by the attending lower-income students was lost by the sixth grade and they were right back in the same positions relative to their peers as those who had not attended. My wife was a Head Start teacher at the time, and we discussed the studies at some length.
Not surprising that Mitch favors it. It's "good for business" to have the taxpayers pay for day care and get the moms back into the work force a year sooner, making the paychecks that support the sales of more products and services.
If the educational system now can't teach kids to count change or find the state on a map in twelve and a half years, I doubt that another half year will turn out a distinguishable number more young Einsteins. But there will be more economic activity generated in paying more teachers, running more bus routes, and putting those moms back to work, and that's really what counts, isn't it?
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Post by Russ Koon on Jul 29, 2006 2:46:54 GMT -5
While I'm at it, I guess I might as well get another bunch riled up at me. I think Indiana is right in expecting the parents to cover the cost of the books. The taxpayers who don't have kids in school are already supporting the huge educational complexes complete with multiple gymnasiums, and athletic fields that would be the envy of many cities. They are being taxed out of house and home, literally, to mow the grass on the soccer fields and wax the basketball floors and maintain the airconditioning for the benefit of the next generation's kids.
So we should also hit them with the tab for the working generation's kids' textbooks? Why? Didn't someone explain that kids can cost money at some point during the child-bearing years?
If we're doing it in appreciation for the great future economic benefit to society of the kids who are educated with "free" textbooks in a mega-school with a great soccer team and a pretty good lacrosse program, then why shouldn't the state reward me for retiring early and opening up a pretty good-paying job for a breadwinner with kids in school? Like maybe picking up half my greens fees, or kicking in enough tax break for a couple dozen arrows? I suppose that pointing out that there are more voters with kids in school than there are retirees who are trying to cope with property taxes might be considered cynical. I'll just point out to those with kids in school that the time will come, after we share the job of supporting them through sixteen or seventeen years of school, when you'll be among the old geezers who are paying for the next generation's even bigger crop of kids, who will by then "need" access to much faster computers, snowmakers for the ski teams, and limo service to and from school and extra-curricular events. But what the heck, "it's for the kids".
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 29, 2006 6:03:06 GMT -5
One of my wife's childhood friends is a teacher and she believes some children are ready and some would benefit by a later start. (if we're going to play the "expert " game) I suspect Russ is correct about what is really driving this issue, and that's what annoys me.
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Post by stinkychomper on Jul 29, 2006 7:30:10 GMT -5
If the educational system now can't teach kids to count change or find the state on a map in twelve and a half years, I doubt that another half year will turn out a distinguishable number more young Einsteins. But there will be more economic activity generated in paying more teachers, running more bus routes, and putting those moms back to work, and that's really what counts, isn't it? Russ - I would strongly encourage you to not follow blindly and repeat the local biased media reports. My question to you would be "when was the last time that you spent at least 2 hours in an educational setting in Indiana's public schools to see what is actually happening?" Public schools are, now more than ever, required to offer 2 meals per day and an afternoon snack for "latch key" kids. We are required to teach to a level that many hoosiers were not afforded in their public education. Anytime a system raises their standards it is certain that some will not be able to keep up and a great amount of time and resources are alloted to help this population of students. So why not start from the beginning at keeping these students on track? I am with you that their homelife is a great factor. I wish I had a nickle for every time a guardian told me that they could not help there student with there homework because it was more advanced than they ever had in school. I am very proud of what our state does for kids. I am not short sighted enough to realize that the generation of kids we have today will pay the bills and be in charge when I retire. I will pose a question here that I ask many students through a school year. If the issue is really upsetting you - what have you done to make it better other than complain and gripe?
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Post by bsutravis on Jul 29, 2006 8:45:30 GMT -5
Stinky...not sure of your background, but if you are an educator than my hats off to ya! I am in inner-city schools, suburb schools, and rural school settings all the time and it's no picnic dealing with some of those kids. Teachers are underpaid and underappreciated!
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Post by kevin1 on Jul 29, 2006 15:37:38 GMT -5
What I've heard about it leads me to believe that it's a good idea from the standpoint of the child's educational development , and when you think about how much more kids have to absorb to live in our increasingly technical society they would probably not be able to make it without the increase in learning . The Japanese have made education a national priority for decades , their kids start school younger than ours do , study a lot more and a lot harder , and look at how far they've come since the post war days .
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Post by chicobrownbear on Jul 29, 2006 18:59:27 GMT -5
I would rather pay for textbooks than sports complexes. Also I agree that parents working with children prior to kindergarten age is the biggest factor in cultivating a fertile mind in the youngster. THe thing of it is, those that don't work with their kids are the ones that won't send them to all day kindergarten, and wouldn't or don't send them to kindergarten at all as it is. Needs to be an enforced requirement. Also they feed your kids trash at school, and standardized testing in Indiana is rediculous in the fact that they test for a years worth of material two months into the school year. So a kid goes to fourth grade this year, and the kid gets tested on what he's supposed to learn in the next 8 months.
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Post by 911 on Jul 29, 2006 19:54:58 GMT -5
We are one of 5 states that charge textbook rental Just wrote the $127 check the other day for this years book fees....blah! I have to write a check for $214 next week for two kids 2nd and 4th grade Ridiculous.
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Post by bsutravis on Jul 30, 2006 1:34:02 GMT -5
That's a couple dozen goose decoys 911! You're right Chico about the ISTEP testing. When the kids go back here in a few weeks they cram for the ISTEP! Why don't they move this test to the Spring time after the kids have spent the year on their regular cirriculum??? I know that in the past years there's been a push to move it to the Spring, but for the life of me I can't figure out why they want to keep it in the Fall.....
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