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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 30, 2005 10:20:29 GMT -5
Crossbows don't make hunting deer any easier (part 1) Editors note: This is part one of a two-part series on the use of crossbows for deer hunting. The use of crossbows for hunting is a hot issue for sportsmen, not only in New York but also across the nation. There appears to be no middle ground, with a canyon of difference of opinion between those who would welcome and those who would oppose the use of crossbows. My position is clear: There is no rational reason for not allowing the use of crossbows during hunting season, especially bow season. However, there are many emotional reasons from those who spend time and money convincing others that crossbows should never be used. I use the word emotional because there is little fact behind any argument on this issue. Let's examine a few of their claims. - The crossbow doesn't meet the definition of a bow. Folks who use this argument say that it doesn't fit the longbow, recurve or compound bow definition. But a longbow doesn't exactly look like the popular compound bow. The traditional longbow doesn't have the many technical advantages of the compound bow. Each year, compound bows take advantage of new technology, materials, accuracy, speed and power to provide hunters with maximum advantage. Sure, the crossbow has a stock that looks like a rifle stock. Beyond that, the dynamics are very similar. Being opposed to the crossbow because it doesn't look traditional is not a logical reason for opposing it. Crossbow hunters will kill more deer than bowhunters. Really? Does owning a rifle mean that you will shoot more deer than someone armed with a shotgun? No. The only advantage a hunter has is his skill in the woods. I could have the finest crossbow, but that doesn't guarantee me anything – no more than hunting with the most advanced compound. The woods will be crowded and filled with crossbow and bowhunters. The argument here is that the crossbow and its ease of use will recruit more hunters into the woods during the bow season. This is more conjecture than anything else. Find any state that allows full use of crossbows – Ohio, for instance – and show us where that has become a problem. Here's a wake-up call: We're losing hunters faster than we can replace them.
Crossbows are not "primitive" enough. It all depends on the definition of "primitive." This resembles the old conflict: flintlocks and percussions vs. in-line black powder. Put a scope on an in-line blackpowder rifle and chickens start falling from the sky. The success rate of any hunter depends only on his or her skill and ability. Next week, we'll discuss more emotional factors from those opposed to crossbow use. David Dirks' outdoors column appears Tuesday in the Times Herald-Record. Write to him at P.O. Box 87, Westtown 10998, or dirksoutdoors@hotmail.com. www.recordonline.com/archive/2005/08/30/dirks30.htm |
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Post by steiny on Aug 30, 2005 18:17:13 GMT -5
Woody - You and the author are certainly free to promote the crossbow however you see fit, and you are certainly free to suggest that is is no easier than a vertical bow.
At the same time, myself and many others disagree with the above.
Quote from my buddy in Missouri, who gets to use one this year due to a shoulder injury ..... "My archery hunting will be a piece of cake this year using a crossbow".
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 31, 2005 5:04:50 GMT -5
Quote from my buddy in Missouri, who gets to use one this year due to a shoulder injury ..... "My archery hunting will be a piece of cake this year using a crossbow". Just a guess , but your bud has probably never actually hunted with one before , has he ? It's not the slam dunk that either he or you think . The deer still has to be in front of it for it to work , that's where the real skill comes in . |
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 31, 2005 7:42:20 GMT -5
Steiny,
You never got back with us whether your friend was doing all that tight group shooting from a rest or not
The deer hunting will be the very same for him. The execution of the shot will be a little different. But, not all that much.
Good luck to your friend and keep us informed on his progress..
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Post by jdmiller on Aug 31, 2005 14:59:19 GMT -5
Steiny :
There are a lot of pre-conceived ideas about crossbows . I and most others will agree they are easier to shoot and be proficient with . This is not a bad thing . When you put a crossbow and a vertical bow in a hunting situation the difference is only that one is already drawn. Self imposed yardage limitations , deflection of your shot , low light limitations, follow-through of the shot , game animal presenting a ethical shot ..... all factors of both weapons in being successful in harvesting any animal .
Shooting at paper or 3-D targets helps in profiency but you can never simulate a hunting condition on the range . A crossbow in a hunting situation is a 40 yd or less weapon no matter what others say . Way too many variables in a hunting situation beyond anyones control. I suggest before you take advice from anyone and perceive thats the rule ........ shoot one for yourself at targets then in a hunting situation and report just how easy the crossbow is . My bet would be you would have a different opinion than your buddy in Missouri .
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Post by reynoldss on Sept 1, 2005 5:51:05 GMT -5
Again, I am less concerned with the ease of one weapon over the other. I still say that hunters need to promote any and all hunting techniques that are leathal and safe. If people feel that crossbows are taking the easy way out, then don't use them when they are legalized. To your own self be true! It's that simple. I know of several people that were adamantly against the legalization of hand guns for deer hunting. Hunters were saying that too many weekend warriors will go to the woods and wound too many deer. Of course, at teh time we did not have the number of deer that we have today either. Interestingly, I know of only two hunters that use a hand gun year in and year out. Surely those that oppose crossbows aren't against them because they are afraid too many people will go to the woods and experience success, are they?
Also, I am blessed in that my wife enjoys hunting deer and turkey. However, she is not strong enough, or perhaps will not take the time to become strong enough, to pull back a verticle bow. However, I am certain that if she were able to use a crossbow, she would go a few times during the archery season.
Lastly, crossbows, in my opinion, require less daily practice than a verticle bow. For those huntes, and everyone knows one too many of them, that do not practice enough before heading to the woods, the crossbow is much more ethical for them to carry. It can be sighted in and then shot ocassionally to make sure it is on. Again, that was just my opinion.
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Post by steiny on Sept 1, 2005 19:36:13 GMT -5
We can beat this dog to death if you want guys.
But the fact is the headline of this thread "Crossbows don't make hunting deer any easier" is total B.S.
Let's forget the range capabilities, accuracy, and all that junk, and just talk about a couple fundamental things that make them easier.
1. They do not have to be drawn like a bow, eliminating much of the movement required to get a shot off, making it easier to get close range shots at spooky deer. I don't think this can be denied.
2. You utilize a two point rest, your shoulder and your hand out front on the forend making them steadier than a vertical bow which is supported by one arm out front. Near the same difference as a rifle -vs- pistol. Clearly, a two point rest makes accuracy easier.
3. You don't have to use muscle to draw one like you do a vertical bow. That is why handicapped folks need to use one. That makes it clearly easier as well.
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Post by kevin1 on Sept 1, 2005 20:50:45 GMT -5
So what ? Does it impact you at all ? No .
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Post by steiny on Sept 1, 2005 21:09:12 GMT -5
Kevin - There is a following of guys out there, and I'm guessing you are one of them, that want crossbow considered an or / equal weapon and brought into the early archery season.
That would impact me, and I am opposed to it for reasons which we have beaten to death here numerous times.
So .... when someone posts something untrue, like "crossbows don't make hunting deer any easier" to help promote their agenda. Expect myself or someone like minded to disagree. Saying nothing, and allowing that rant to continue unopposed just doesn't sit right.
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Post by jajwrigh on Sept 1, 2005 21:44:45 GMT -5
A crossbow is no different than any other weapon really. They require careful selection of bullets/arrows and the complete setup. Every weapon has its strengths and weaknesses as well. I don't understand why people get mad for the use of crossbows. I am 6'4" 230lbs and plenty healthy and strong and I would buy one tommorrow if I had the money. I also hunt with bow, shotgun, muzzleloader. I enjoy variety and trying different approaches to accomplish the same task. If a guy in 6 inches taller than you in a basketball game, does that mean the game will be easier for him? There are too many factors to consider to make such a simple and ignorant claim. Who cares what people hunt with! I go afield my me and my passion! I don't a **** what the next guy thinks of my weapon, camo, or truck!! ;D Good luck this season all!!  |
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Post by reynoldss on Sept 1, 2005 21:46:06 GMT -5
Sir, with all due respect, I am new to the site and have not heard the reasons hunters are giving for not wanting crossbows legalized. I do not disagree with the fact that once you get the crossbow cocked that is easier.
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Post by jajwrigh on Sept 1, 2005 22:38:38 GMT -5
Welcome to the site! ;D I usually don't get into any debates, but once in a blue moon I will give my opinion. I realize my opinion means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, so don't any personal offense to anything I said. Good luck this season!!
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Post by jh45gun on Sept 3, 2005 2:01:53 GMT -5
All I say is hunt with one and you will see it is no different than bow hunting with the same challenges and hunting skills. The range is the same and the arrow kills the same and the deer does not know the difference what delivery system killed it. xbows can have the major hunting difficulties that bow users face in the woods only using one would show you that. Using xbow hunting is vastly different than shooting at a target just as using a gun is different shooting off bags at a range at a target or out shooting offhand or with a make shift rest at a living moving target. Before you condemn it try it and if you do not want to do that then listen to the folks that have. By the way I started hunting with a recurve in 1966 with shooting my first deer then a fork horn buck. I have been shooting a bow ( later years a compound) ever since with many deer to my credit and having used a xbow for the past two years as I can now with a disabled permit I have found the xbow has challenges just as a bow does some the same and some a bit different but not enough to make a vast difference. Last year I saw many deer that were not with in my range to shoot either as the xbow is a short range weapon just as the bow is. All of this shoots like a gun and can shoot at a 100 yards talk is pure BS.
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Post by reynoldss on Sept 3, 2005 6:46:37 GMT -5
I intended this for Mr. Steiny---Sir, with all due respect, I am new to the site and have not heard the reasons hunters are giving for not wanting crossbows legalized. I do not disagree with the fact that once you get the crossbow cocked that it is easier to hold the arrow at full draw. Also, it can be cocked at the truck and of course would then require less movement by the hunter moments prior to the shot being taken. I understand the concept that xbows utilize a two point rest, your shoulder and your hand out front on the forend making them steadier than a vertical bow given a steady rest, crossbows are easier to aim. What other reasons do anti-xbowers have not not wanting them to share the same regulations as archery equipment.
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Post by joen on Sept 3, 2005 6:58:28 GMT -5
I like to bow hunt and shoot 3-D. If the Xbow will get more people hunting I am for it as long as it dont create a danger to the public what is wrong with it? The more Archery hunters we have the more power we have to protect our sport.We want to gain hunters not lose them. My biggest thrill is when I take my kids to the hunt.
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Post by jajwrigh on Sept 3, 2005 10:05:15 GMT -5
You struck a really good point...the mention of getting more hunters in the woods and preserving the sport is the most critical thing for us all.
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Post by steiny on Sept 3, 2005 13:15:07 GMT -5
renyoldss -
I'm probably walking in to a hornets nests, but will answer your question none the less.
I love bowhunting. Have been at it for over 30 years. What I like best about bow hunting in the early season, is the fact that you can pretty much have an area to yourself, and you are hunting deer that have not yet been pushed and pressured. They are behaving normally.
I would suspect allowance of crossbows in the early archery season would put a bunch more hunters in the woods at that time, because it is an easier weapon to use. Don't know about other folks hunting turf, but around here I've probably watched 50% or more of the huntable habitat dissapear due to clean farming practices and development. There is simply not that much decent habitat available. I'm not sure we can even support many more hunters and still provide a quality experience.
I don't really want a bunch more hunters in the woods during early archery season. Some here will say that is selfish and bad for the sport. If that is how they feel, I can't change that. We all have our own views.
The opportunity to hunt that season is wide open for anyone that wants to do it under the present regulations. The simple fact that use of a vertical bow is somewhat difficult and challenging, is what limits the amount of hunters in the field at that time. But that difficulty and challenge is also what makes that season so much fun and success so rewarding. I don't want to see that changed.
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Post by joen on Sept 3, 2005 14:04:31 GMT -5
I know a guy at work that injured his right shoulder in that there is no way for him to draw a right hand bow. He loves archery hunting so he used a Xbow for the last several years.I asked him if it was easyer to use. He said the range was about the same but the problem with tree limbs was now with width instead of hieght.You know the ones that can hit your bows limbs when your shooting. Earlyer this year he bought a left handed bow and tought himself to shoot left handed because he missed the regular bow that much. I dont know of anyone that has gone out and bought a cross bow for the second season of hunting in Indiana.The first season might get a few more out in the woods.If it does I say great. The more people we have out running around and spending money on this and that the better it is for the economy.I also like having the solitude of bow hunting thats why I plan on retiring in Wyoming. Are me gaining or loosing archery huntrs in Indiana?If the ? of outlawing archery season was on the election ballot would we be able to keep our sport?I know of alot of people who dont care either way.They might buy a Xbow and try for a season or 2 then stop hunting archery because it still takes alot more woodsmanship than using a firearm.
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Post by reynoldss on Sept 3, 2005 20:52:17 GMT -5
Steiny, Thank you for answering the question. No hornets nest from me. You are intitled to your opinion. Although we are on opposite sides of this issue, I am sure we could find common ground elsewhere. Have a great day and I hope you have the best of hunting seasons ever during '05.
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Post by jh45gun on Sept 3, 2005 21:00:28 GMT -5
renyoldss - I'm probably walking in to a hornets nests, but will answer your question none the less. I love bowhunting. Have been at it for over 30 years. What I like best about bow hunting in the early season, is the fact that you can pretty much have an area to yourself, and you are hunting deer that have not yet been pushed and pressured. They are behaving normally. I would suspect allowance of crossbows in the early archery season would put a bunch more hunters in the woods at that time, because it is an easier weapon to use. Don't know about other folks hunting turf, but around here I've probably watched 50% or more of the huntable habitat dissapear due to clean farming practices and development. There is simply not that much decent habitat available. I'm not sure we can even support many more hunters and still provide a quality experience. I don't really want a bunch more hunters in the woods during early archery season. Some here will say that is selfish and bad for the sport. If that is how they feel, I can't change that. We all have our own views. The opportunity to hunt that season is wide open for anyone that wants to do it under the present regulations. The simple fact that use of a vertical bow is somewhat difficult and challenging, is what limits the amount of hunters in the field at that time. But that difficulty and challenge is also what makes that season so much fun and success so rewarding. I don't want to see that changed. Well your upfront and honest about it I have to give you that but what makes you think your so special that you should have the woods to your self. Attitudes like yours may be part of the reaon that hunting is declineing your sure not helping to keep it going with that kind of attitude. The woods if on public land belong to every one and if not on public land but others get permission to use it than they should have the same right you do. Selfish yea I guess I would classify you as that. Too bad as a lot of bow hunters have your same attitude. Its My season and MY deer. Well as I have said before its not your season as others use it too and its not your deer until you put a tag on it. |
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