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Post by drfleck on Aug 25, 2024 18:47:44 GMT -5
Here lately my favorite squirrel gun has developed a serious reliability problem. I will get her all loaded up, get to the woods, stalk a squirrel, apply cross hairs to the squirrel's head, squeeze the trigger,.....and click. Then I will manually cycle another round in and usually that one won't fire. Then a third. Then sometimes the fourth or so time will be the charm. Almost never will the first round fire and I usually have several failures throughout a magazine. The problem occurs with mini mags and CCI standard velocity. I don't think it is a problem with the ammo. The rounds that dont fire show a very light strike to the rim.
I have cleaned the chamber thoroughly with a brass brush. I disassembled and cleaned the gun. Disassembled and cleaned the bolt. I thought I had the problem identified when I removed a large chunk of crud from the bolt face next to the extractor...but no. Firing pin and firing pin slot in the bolt are clean. Hammer spring seems to be working correctly. Bolt seems to be fully in battery and I will even verify by pressing the charging handle forward before I attempt to shoot. Even though I don't have any trouble with feeding, I disassembled and cleaned the magazine as well. I have ran the gun dry and lubed.
This gun was made in 1974 and I have owned it for about ten years. As far as I know it is all original and has not been modified in any way. Being fifty years old, are parts like the firing pin and hammer spring likely worn out? Should I just fire the parts cannon at this thing or am I missing something else.
Thank you.
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Post by stevein on Aug 25, 2024 20:59:45 GMT -5
Check for a firing pin dent on the chamber. East to do, an unfired round should drop right in. After a FTF look at your round to check for a firing pin indent.
I would replace the hammer spring. The firing pin should move freely with just some resistance from the return spring. A lot of time less oil is more. If you have compressed air a few puffs after oiling to blow off excess oil is all it takes. I am not familiar with the 10-22 but if the firing pin does not move free I would check everything associated with it.
Get some 22 snap caps so you do not have store it cocked.
Good luck bad time for a problem.
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Post by steiny on Aug 26, 2024 8:59:15 GMT -5
Good advice above, and never dry fire a .22 rimfire on an empty chamber.
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Post by drfleck on Aug 26, 2024 11:23:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestions. Rounds slide into the chamber easily as far as I can tell. I have never dry fired the gun. If it has been dry fired in the past I see no evidence of that around the chamber. I see how dry firing could cause firing pin wear and damage to the chamber. I think I may just order a new firing pin and hammer spring and hopefully that gets me fixed up. I wouldn't think that the firing pin would wear with normal use as it is harder than the case. But perhaps it is now slightly out of spec as it is fifty years old.
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Post by drfleck on Aug 26, 2024 11:33:43 GMT -5
Just ordered a new firing pin, firing pin spring, and hammer strut assembly with hammer spring. Hopefully they arrive before the end of squirrel season. Will report back.
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Post by esshup on Aug 26, 2024 12:30:31 GMT -5
I'd clean the trigger group if you haven't done so already. That might help too.
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Post by drfleck on Aug 26, 2024 13:19:43 GMT -5
I'd clean the trigger group if you haven't done so already. That might help too. Hosed it out with some brake clean but did not disassemble other than to remove the hammer strut and spring to inspect. I'm a little nervous about removing more springs and individual components from the trigger group. But if the new parts don't fix the issue then I suppose I will need to dig deeper into the trigger group. |
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Post by drfleck on Aug 26, 2024 16:10:34 GMT -5
I just made an observation. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't.
I cycled the charging handle and chambered a round from the magazine. I removed the magazine and looked into the receiver to verify that the bolt is going fully into battery. It appears that it is and can be pushed no further as it is touching the breech face.
Now comes the question. While still looking into the receiver and holding the rifle with the muzzle pointing upwards, like one would while squirrel hunting, I noticed that the rim of the case is not tight against the breech. I am able to push it forward into the chamber ever so slightly. It's not moving much, I'd say less than half the thickness of the case rim just by eyeballing. If I rotate the gun so that the muzzle is pointing straight down then the round will slip forward ever so slightly into the chamber and the rim will rest against the breech.
Is this normal? Is this to prevent a slam fire from the bolt face smashing the rim of the case into the breech every time a round is chambered?
If this spacing is normal then that would mean that there would have to be sufficient firing pin protrusion to push the case forward and dent the rim for ignition.
Thanks for the time.
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Post by esshup on Aug 26, 2024 20:39:59 GMT -5
I don't *think* this is normal. But my 10/22 isn't here in the house so I can't check it.
You can always remove the two allen screws on the barrel block, and remove the barrel from the receiver to clean it easier.
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Post by saltydog on Aug 27, 2024 5:45:32 GMT -5
I just made an observation. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't. I cycled the charging handle and chambered a round from the magazine. I removed the magazine and looked into the receiver to verify that the bolt is going fully into battery. It appears that it is and can be pushed no further as it is touching the breech face. Now comes the question. While still looking into the receiver and holding the rifle with the muzzle pointing upwards, like one would while squirrel hunting, I noticed that the rim of the case is not tight against the breech. I am able to push it forward into the chamber ever so slightly. It's not moving much, I'd say less than half the thickness of the case rim just by eyeballing. If I rotate the gun so that the muzzle is pointing straight down then the round will slip forward ever so slightly into the chamber and the rim will rest against the breech. Is this normal? Is this to prevent a slam fire from the bolt face smashing the rim of the case into the breech every time a round is chambered? If this spacing is normal then that would mean that there would have to be sufficient firing pin protrusion to push the case forward and dent the rim for ignition. Thanks for the time. I'm with essup I don't think its normal, also check the extractor to see if its lining up with the notch on the barrel as it goes to battery, hopfully its centered , but it could of got bent slightly. Check the alignment of the barrel, and the tightness of the barrel bolts making sure that they are even tightened and or torqued (15-25 inch pounds) I believe. Check the barrel lug for debris. Let us know the outcome, Good luck. |
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Post by HighCotton on Aug 27, 2024 5:56:17 GMT -5
I’m curious to see the outcome here.
I had a similar problem with my Target 10/22. But the light strikes were not as extreme.
Since I had planned anyway, I dropped the BX trigger group into the gun and that has solved the issues.
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Post by drfleck on Aug 27, 2024 6:30:48 GMT -5
After further research, I am finding that the pocket that the case rim sits in when the bolt is closed, or headspace, is normal to be deeper than the case rim itself. This would explain why I am able to move the case in and out of the chamber a very small amount when the bolt is closed. And the bolt is fully closed, resting on the breech face. I could see how any firing pin wear could cause a problem with sufficient strikes.
I will check the barrel hardware when I get home tonight. The extractor seems to be fully inserted into the extractor slot and I made sure to clean that out.
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Post by drfleck on Aug 27, 2024 6:34:26 GMT -5
I’m curious to see the outcome here. I had a similar problem with my Target 10/22. But the light strikes were not as extreme. Since I had planned anyway, I dropped the BX trigger group into the gun and that has solved the issues. How is that trigger? Do you recommend? I have actually been considering an upgrade. |
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Post by drfleck on Aug 27, 2024 6:51:05 GMT -5
I just made an observation. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn't. I cycled the charging handle and chambered a round from the magazine. I removed the magazine and looked into the receiver to verify that the bolt is going fully into battery. It appears that it is and can be pushed no further as it is touching the breech face. Now comes the question. While still looking into the receiver and holding the rifle with the muzzle pointing upwards, like one would while squirrel hunting, I noticed that the rim of the case is not tight against the breech. I am able to push it forward into the chamber ever so slightly. It's not moving much, I'd say less than half the thickness of the case rim just by eyeballing. If I rotate the gun so that the muzzle is pointing straight down then the round will slip forward ever so slightly into the chamber and the rim will rest against the breech. Is this normal? Is this to prevent a slam fire from the bolt face smashing the rim of the case into the breech every time a round is chambered? If this spacing is normal then that would mean that there would have to be sufficient firing pin protrusion to push the case forward and dent the rim for ignition. Thanks for the time. I'm with essup I don't think its normal, also check the extractor to see if its lining up with the notch on the barrel as it goes to battery, hopfully its centered , but it could of got bent slightly. Check the alignment of the barrel, and the tightness of the barrel bolts making sure that they are even tightened and or torqued (15-25 inch pounds) I believe. Check the barrel lug for debris. Let us know the outcome, Good luck. I see that the extractor notch is not perfectly aligned with the extractor even though the extractor seems to be going into the notch ok. Either the notch was not cut correctly or the barrel is rotated clockwise slightly. When viewed from the chamber. I've never removed the barrel before or checked the hardware or recoil lug. Is this easy to do? |
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Post by HighCotton on Aug 27, 2024 6:54:43 GMT -5
I’m curious to see the outcome here. I had a similar problem with my Target 10/22. But the light strikes were not as extreme. Since I had planned anyway, I dropped the BX trigger group into the gun and that has solved the issues. How is that trigger? Do you recommend? I have actually been considering an upgrade. I would not recommend this is an option yet. I’m not convinced that it would solve your problem which is one reason I’m very curious to see oh this issue gets fixed. |
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Post by saltydog on Aug 27, 2024 7:22:10 GMT -5
I'm with essup I don't think its normal, also check the extractor to see if its lining up with the notch on the barrel as it goes to battery, hopfully its centered , but it could of got bent slightly. Check the alignment of the barrel, and the tightness of the barrel bolts making sure that they are even tightened and or torqued (15-25 inch pounds) I believe. Check the barrel lug for debris. Let us know the outcome, Good luck. I see that the extractor notch is not perfectly aligned with the extractor even though the extractor seems to be going into the notch ok. Either the notch was not cut correctly or the barrel is rotated clockwise slightly. When viewed from the chamber. I've never removed the barrel before or checked the hardware or recoil lug. Is this easy to do? Its not hard at all, once you remove the action from the stock, where the barrel lug goes into the receiver check the the V block to see if it is even across the notch cut into the barrel. Pay attention the screws when loosening to see if one was tighter than the other one. Once the screws are out the barrel should just pull out, although it could be a bit snug. Then clean the lug and the receiver and check for any signs of wear . If you pull the the bolt out of the receiver check the up in the corners of the receiver for debris that might be stopping the bolt from reaching full battery. I hope this helps in your fix. Upon reassembly pay attention to the locking V groove and that it is seated evenly. |
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Post by drfleck on Aug 27, 2024 7:29:58 GMT -5
How is that trigger? Do you recommend? I have actually been considering an upgrade. I would not recommend this is an option yet. I’m not convinced that it would solve your problem which is one reason I’m very curious to see oh this issue gets fixed. I understand. I just meant, if I got my gun working correctly, would this then be a nice upgrade? |
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Post by HighCotton on Aug 27, 2024 9:05:58 GMT -5
I would not recommend this is an option yet. I’m not convinced that it would solve your problem which is one reason I’m very curious to see oh this issue gets fixed. I understand. I just meant, if I got my gun working correctly, would this then be a nice upgrade? At first, I was going to say, absolutely. And then I looked at the current price being $80 and above the best I can tell. I know I didn’t pay that. I think I was closer to $50. However, I have been very happy with the BX. Easy to install and my trigger pull is smooth, right at 2.5 pounds. Not that it pertains to your topic here but I also did the Auto bolt release myself. Some simple tools and a file and you’ll get to go. Lots of good videos on the process out there. But I’m guessing you probably already know that. |
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Post by jtkelly on Aug 27, 2024 13:04:07 GMT -5
I've never removed the barrel before or checked the hardware or recoil lug. Is this easy to do? Yes. |
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Post by drfleck on Aug 27, 2024 14:16:48 GMT -5
If I remove and replace the barrel, will my scope no longer be zeroed?
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