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Post by M4Madness on Feb 4, 2023 19:23:00 GMT -5
Serious question:
Can anyone here prove that older class bucks are the product of OBR?
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Post by duff on Feb 4, 2023 19:32:03 GMT -5
Serious question: Can anyone here prove that older class bucks are the product of OBR? Serious answer...not a chance. It is a feel good rule that had little impact on harvest. Just because it is popular doesn't make it a fact.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2023 19:35:11 GMT -5
[quote author=" M4Madness" source="/post/668443 /thread" timestamp="1675556580"]Serious question: Can anyone here prove that older class bucks are the product of OBR? [/quote] Stewart wasn't with the Commission when the rule was implemented, but his understanding is that sportsmen and women lobbied for the rule to manage the herd for more mature deer. Steward explained that in 2001, the year before the one-buck rule was applied, 56% of the bucks harvested were yearlings. He recalls that at the time, there was some push-back from some groups of hunters, but the rule was renewed in 2007 and today 65% of Indiana hunters support the rule, and most of those support the rule “overwhelmingly.” According to Stewart, the popularity has a lot to do with hunters seeing more bucks, and the bucks they are seeing are larger and more mature. In fact, in 2011 (the latest year for which there is data) the yearling buck harvest was only 39%. As Indiana's one-buck rule demonstrates, when hunters and game departments work together and use sound wildlife management practices, great things can happen.–Scott Mayer www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiGqNi2-Pz8AhURk2oFHRmNC38QFnoECCwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsafariclub.org%2Fhoosier-bigger-buck-state%2F&usg=AOvVaw1-tWL9dngwmNw27WN1FWAt
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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2023 19:36:38 GMT -5
Serious question: Can anyone here prove that older class bucks are the product of OBR? Serious answer...not a chance. It is a feel good rule that had little impact on harvest. Just because it is popular doesn't make it a fact. That’s your opinion…… many other see it and know it differently
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 4, 2023 19:51:09 GMT -5
Serious question: Can anyone here prove that older class bucks are the product of OBR? Serious answer...not a chance. It is a feel good rule that had little impact on harvest. Just because it is popular doesn't make it a fact. You are correct. It's only just a piece of the puzzle. The rest is yet to come...
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Post by welder on Feb 4, 2023 20:00:59 GMT -5
I am probably going to get lambasted for this but I have not been shy about posting my opinions. I went back and read all the posts in this thread. If you read between the lines 99% are about what "I want" not what is good for the heard. I want to shoot bigger deer,I want more does,I want my neighbors to hunt like I do,I do not want my neighbor killing young deer. I want gun moved for big deer so less bucks get shot,I want less season for archery, I want shorter season for gun. I want,I want, I want. Boy are we selfish! Only one post about the sutainability of the herd and nothing about the satisfaction of the hunter that takes a buck that does not meet your standards or goals in what hunting should be. Hunting is personal and satisfaction in the hunt is different for every one of us. We as a group should never degrade a hunter because he does not partake in our self-imposed rules for hunting or what he should or should not kill. We also should not promote laws that restrict his abilities to hunt in a manner that does not hurt the sutainability of the herd because we donot like it. If it is leagle the DNR has supposedly determined that the herd can sutain the kill and can still maintain a healthey herd. I may not like the rules for hunting but if the DNR manages the heard for sutainability of a healthey heard and not for horns or for the satisfaction of some group of hunters I will stand behind them 110 % all day long. At this time the DNR has not shown me that the OBR is best for the satainability of a healthy herd. Thus I do not like the OBR. If they ever show me that the OBR is the best practice for a healthey herd I will except it and promote it 100%. I refuse to allow my wants to cloud my judgements agents scientific information pertaining to managing a heard for sutainability and not for hunter satisfaction. I could go on but I won't Onebentarrow This is probably the best post in this whole thread.
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Post by M4Madness on Feb 4, 2023 20:02:53 GMT -5
As I said before, I can take or leave OBR. If everyone wants it, I can accept it. But I don't believe for one moment that it has anything to do with mature bucks. Older bucks are simply the product of people being more selective and letting younger bucks walk. The buck harvest has increased since the OBR was instituted. The doe harvest has too -- which means less bucks being born the next season. There aren't thousands of bucks growing old because of OBR.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 4, 2023 20:16:55 GMT -5
[quote author=" M4Madness" source="/post/668443 /thread" timestamp="1675556580"]Serious question: Can anyone here prove that older class bucks are the product of OBR? Stewart wasn't with the Commission when the rule was implemented, but his understanding is that sportsmen and women lobbied for the rule to manage the herd for more mature deer. Steward explained that in 2001, the year before the one-buck rule was applied, 56% of the bucks harvested were yearlings. He recalls that at the time, there was some push-back from some groups of hunters, but the rule was renewed in 2007 and today 65% of Indiana hunters support the rule, and most of those support the rule “overwhelmingly.” According to Stewart, the popularity has a lot to do with hunters seeing more bucks, and the bucks they are seeing are larger and more mature. In fact, in 2011 (the latest year for which there is data) the yearling buck harvest was only 39%. As Indiana's one-buck rule demonstrates, when hunters and game departments work together and use sound wildlife management practices, great things can happen.–Scott Mayer www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiGqNi2-Pz8AhURk2oFHRmNC38QFnoECCwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsafariclub.org%2Fhoosier-bigger-buck-state%2F&usg=AOvVaw1-tWL9dngwmNw27WN1FWAt[/quote]Bull.. The OBR trial was passed because two good old boy “organized hunting groups” wanted it. It was mostly pushed by the president of one of the groups. The bowhunters group took a vote but got very little responses. IIRC - Out of several hundred members they got about 30 responses. The votes cast was 18 for and 12 against. After it passed that group lost about half of their membership. As Jim Mitchell said,”The bowhunters shot themselves in the foot. “ You see at one time the DNR erroneously though these groups represented the deer hunters of Indiana. Remember “Deer Proposal #1” where the DNR had these same groups (Stakeholders they called them)help formulate the proposal? When it was proposed the REAL deer hunters threw a hissy fit and the NRC asked the DNR to pull it and go back to the drawing board. “Deer Proposal #2” was generated in the DNR only and passed unanimously. After the five year trial the bowhunters took a “No position” on a recommendation I’ve got pre and post yearling data somewhere and I’ll post it when I find it.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2023 20:25:12 GMT -5
I am sure Chad and author of article are lying and making up information ….. More from Outdoor life…. t.co/V8xEpuifdR
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Post by duff on Feb 4, 2023 20:30:38 GMT -5
Why are we even talking OBR? was it mentioned in the survey? I don't recall seeing it but only skimmed the questions. It has been 20ish years...a lot of hunters have never experienced the old rule and I doubt they ever will.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2023 20:34:19 GMT -5
Why are we even talking OBR? was it mentioned in the survey? I don't recall seeing it but only skimmed the questions. It has been 20ish years...a lot of hunters have never experienced the old rule and I doubt they ever will. I agree……no it wasn’t on the Survey
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 4, 2023 22:26:43 GMT -5
I am sure Chad and author of article are lying and making up information ….. More from Outdoor life…. t.co/V8xEpuifdRI joined a newly formed group back then called " Indiana Whitetail Lobby", Brad Herndon was one of founder's. Group supported OBR and lobbied hard for it.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2023 22:34:18 GMT -5
I remember Brad wasn’t he from Jackson County Seymour area?
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Post by onebentarrow on Feb 4, 2023 22:48:35 GMT -5
I am sure Chad and author of article are lying and making up information ….. More from Outdoor life…. t.co/V8xEpuifdRI read the article. There was not one word about sustainable or healthey herd just manage for bigger deer. That is an opinion piece about iwant iwant not scientific.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 4, 2023 22:51:36 GMT -5
I remember Brad wasn’t he from Jackson County Seymour area? Yes. Avid hunter, outdoor writer and a offical scorer for P&Y and HBB (Maybe B&C). Really good guy.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 4, 2023 23:13:05 GMT -5
I am sure Chad and author of article are lying and making up information ….. More from Outdoor life…. t.co/V8xEpuifdRI read the article. There was not one word about sustainable or healthey herd just manage for bigger deer. That is an opinion piece about iwant iwant not scientific. True it did not, BUT it is common knowledge in the whitetail deer mgt. world,that the ideal buck to doe ratio would be 1-1. ( Indiana harvest right now is getting close to that.) In wild it is difficult to achieve but not impossible. Personally like more does around than that. Thats just my opinion.
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Post by onebentarrow on Feb 4, 2023 23:33:57 GMT -5
I read the article. There was not one word about sustainable or healthey herd just manage for bigger deer. That is an opinion piece about iwant iwant not scientific. True it did not, BUT it is common knowledge in the whitetail deer mgt. world,that the ideal buck to doe ratio would be 1-1. ( Indiana harvest right now is getting close to that.) In wild it is difficult to achieve but not impossible. Personally like more does around than that. Thats just my opinion. If my memory serves me correct I did read some studys that stated a 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 ratio was a marker of a healthy herd but have never seen one that stated older bucks are a better or younger are a worse marker of a healthy herd.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 5, 2023 0:09:00 GMT -5
True it did not, BUT it is common knowledge in the whitetail deer mgt. world,that the ideal buck to doe ratio would be 1-1. ( Indiana harvest right now is getting close to that.) In wild it is difficult to achieve but not impossible. Personally like more does around than that. Thats just my opinion. If my memory serves me correct I did read some studys that stated a 1 to 1 or 2 to 1 ratio was a marker of a healthy herd but have never seen one that stated older bucks are a better or younger are a worse marker of a healthy herd. Average age of bucks as of last deer summary as I recall was under 3 yrs. of age. Even now , its rare for a buck to live past 5.5 in wild. Very rare.
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 5, 2023 5:06:39 GMT -5
Why are we even talking OBR? was it mentioned in the survey? I don't recall seeing it but only skimmed the questions. It has been 20ish years...a lot of hunters have never experienced the old rule and I doubt they ever will. We are discussing it because I was curious what evéryones position on it is. So I made up this poll so we could all see. Just fer something to keep us busy in the off season. Is it a bad subject?
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 5, 2023 5:13:03 GMT -5
I read the article. There was not one word about sustainable or healthey herd just manage for bigger deer. That is an opinion piece about iwant iwant not scientific. True it did not, BUT it is common knowledge in the whitetail deer mgt. world,that the ideal buck to doe ratio would be 1-1. ( Indiana harvest right now is getting close to that.) In wild it is difficult to achieve but not impossible. Personally like more does around than that. Thats just my opinion. We looked up harvest male to female numbers. Male harvest is higher by far than female. Almost every year. Go ahead and put up this year's male to female harvest numbers.
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