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Post by welder on Feb 2, 2023 18:02:24 GMT -5
This is the exact carbon copy of how the conversations went back when OBR was up fer discussions. Depending on which forum you were on depended on how the conversations went. Some for it. But to me it seemed like more against. Guys got banned left and right cause they didn't know how to control their internet flex. How many guys who were dead head against OBR still are against it? Me. I was and still am DEAD AGAINST IT.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 2, 2023 19:18:50 GMT -5
The OBR was put into place by the good old boy network.. a couple Organized hunting groups wanted it and Jim Mitchel OKed it. The second group (bowhunters) "shot themselves in the foot according to Jim.. They did regret it. Ever since the "trial" started the buck kill has progressed up and up. IOW - We aren't "saving any bucks". Yep, lets go back to one with archery equipment and one wit a firearm. Totally disagree. OBR does increase buck harvest, YES. Why? Because there are more bucks each year. (Simple mathematics). It helps increase buck population, like rolling a snowball dn a hill. Don't kid yourself either, Indiana is not a true one buck state, (Reduction zones, park hunts, military refuge, depredation tags etc.), I fought for it back then and will continue to do so, same with longer seasons , which allow hunters to be more selective (if they choose), and more days to enjoy the great outdoors. BINGO…. When the final adoption came for the OBR not one person showed up at the meeting to speak against it.There has been many surveys since the adoption and the OBR is still the majority favorite. One the BEST management tools the DNR has.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 2, 2023 19:19:45 GMT -5
Mike
The move upward in buck kills was immediate in 2002 and had steady, if not increasing, since then,
What was interesting is the bowhunters early season buck kill was down 2600 kills and the firearm kill was up 3500. Basically the firearm hunters were killing the bucks that the bowhunters were passing up. Jim Mitchell (DNR deer biologist) says at the time it was just a transfer of harvest from one season to another.
You are correct in that we are not a true one buck state. Nothing keeps a buck, or doe for that matter, within the confines of a reserve , park or refuge. Since the deer know no boundaries and all are considered part of the statewide what does it matter where those two bucks are killed? Yes, I know that the draw hunts are for population control , but we both know that population is controlled by killing does, not bucks.
Before the OBR the age shift was already happening. Why? Because us deer hunters were aging, getting more experienced and most of all - more selective in what buck we would take and wouldn’t take.
Pre-OBR the Deer Biologist stated there were about 6,000 “double dippers”. There are no legal statewide “double dippers” anymore but I’d say a good chunk of that 6,000 is killed in the draw hunts. Those 6,000 bowhunter double dippers are still letting more firearm hunters kill the deer that they passed. Maybe allowing more people to kill is a good thing or would that be “affirmative action deer hunting”?
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 2, 2023 19:25:40 GMT -5
Totally disagree. OBR does increase buck harvest, YES. Why? Because there are more bucks each year. (Simple mathematics). It helps increase buck population, like rolling a snowball dn a hill. Don't kid yourself either, Indiana is not a true one buck state, (Reduction zones, park hunts, military refuge, depredation tags etc.), I fought for it back then and will continue to do so, same with longer seasons , which allow hunters to be more selective (if they choose), and more days to enjoy the great outdoors. BINGO…. When the final adoption came for the OBR not one person showed up at the meeting to speak against it.There has been many surveys since the adoption and the OBR is still the majority favorite. One the BEST management tools the DNR has. Actually a DNR deer hunter survey early on in the OBR the majority of respondents said they favored a two buck trial or an earn a buck on the second buck. Even Jim Mitchell and Chad Stewart both stated that the only way to determine FOR SURE if the OBR made any difference is to conduct a 5 year two buck trial.
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Post by welder on Feb 2, 2023 19:25:52 GMT -5
Mike The move upward in buck kills was immediate in 2002 and had steady, if not increasing, since then, What was interesting is the bowhunters early season buck kill was down 2600 kills and the firearm kill was up 3500. Basically the firearm hunters were killing the bucks that the bowhunters were passing up. Jim Mitchell (DNR deer biologist) says at the time it was just a transfer of harvest from one season to another. You are correct in that we are not a true one buck state. Nothing keeps a buck, or doe for that matter, within the confines of a reserve , park or refuge. Since the deer know no boundaries and all are considered part of the statewide what does it matter where those two bucks are killed? Yes, I know that the draw hunts are for population control , but we both know that population is controlled by killing does, not bucks. Before the OBR the age shift was already happening. Why? Because us deer hunters were aging, getting more experienced and most of all - more selective in what buck we would take and wouldn’t take. Pre-OBR the Deer Biologist stated there were about 6,000 “double dippers”. There are no legal statewide “double dippers” anymore but I’d say a good chunk of that 6,000 is killed in the draw hunts. Those 6,000 bowhunter double dippers are still letting more firearm hunters kill the deer that they passed. Maybe allowing more people to kill is a good thing or would that be “affirmative action deer hunting”? Spot on!!!
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Post by greghopper on Feb 2, 2023 19:38:15 GMT -5
“6,000” was only the amount that were successful I say about double that amount tried for 2 Bucks.
I can only imagine the killing that would take place now if we allowed 2 bucks with the modern equipment in place today.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 2, 2023 19:38:49 GMT -5
Mike The move upward in buck kills was immediate in 2002 and had steady, if not increasing, since then, What was interesting is the bowhunters early season buck kill was down 2600 kills and the firearm kill was up 3500. Basically the firearm hunters were killing the bucks that the bowhunters were passing up. Jim Mitchell (DNR deer biologist) says at the time it was just a transfer of harvest from one season to another. You are correct in that we are not a true one buck state. Nothing keeps a buck, or doe for that matter, within the confines of a reserve , park or refuge. Since the deer know no boundaries and all are considered part of the statewide what does it matter where those two bucks are killed? Yes, I know that the draw hunts are for population control , but we both know that population is controlled by killing does, not bucks. Before the OBR the age shift was already happening. Why? Because us deer hunters were aging, getting more experienced and most of all - more selective in what buck we would take and wouldn’t take. Pre-OBR the Deer Biologist stated there were about 6,000 “double dippers”. There are no legal statewide “double dippers” anymore but I’d say a good chunk of that 6,000 is killed in the draw hunts. Those 6,000 bowhunter double dippers are still letting more firearm hunters kill the deer that they passed. Maybe allowing more people to kill is a good thing or would that be “affirmative action deer hunting”? Just use 6000 year it saves. Not all those get killed follow year. (Say 4000 do.) So 2 years down road you have 6000+2000=8000 2nd year, Repeat, repeat. Buck population increases each year, as well as buck harvest.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 2, 2023 19:50:29 GMT -5
Mike
The double dips were from archery season. The firearm Hunter gladly filled those tags and didn’t even say “thank you” to the bowhunters…
As Mitchell says,”It’s a transfer from one season to another.”
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 2, 2023 19:52:45 GMT -5
I'm a DOUBLE dipper...or a double dip$#@&... Whichever you prefer...
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 2, 2023 19:54:15 GMT -5
That shift to a different age class goes to a entire new level once the gun season gets shortened...
Less deer get killed one year only means more around to shoot at the next year. Couple years down the road and whaaammmoo..
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 2, 2023 20:03:20 GMT -5
That shift to a different age class goes to a entire new level once the gun season gets shortened... Less deer get killed one year only means more around to shoot at the next year. Couple years down the road and whaaammmoo.. Last I saw we were right up there, if not better, in age class than some of the states being ballyhooed. The Deer And Deer Hunting might be a good place to go look at that .
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 2, 2023 20:04:05 GMT -5
I bet you fellas wish I would go back to killing birds don't ya.
The interesting thing was nobody showed to the meeting to disagree with OBR. Then fellars wondered how it passed.
Look up on here when they held the DNR meetings to shut down waterfowl hunting here on the river. I went to a meeting here and jumped all up and down at them people. The only 2 people there to speak up for hunting was me and my bud. They had a room full of people against hunting there. It's always the group that speaks the loudest...
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 2, 2023 20:07:51 GMT -5
That shift to a different age class goes to a entire new level once the gun season gets shortened... Less deer get killed one year only means more around to shoot at the next year. Couple years down the road and whaaammmoo.. Last I saw we were right up there, if not better, in age class than some of the states being ballyhooed. The Deer And Deer Hunting might be a good place to go look at that . No way on god's green earth does St Joe county Indiana age class of bucks come even close to what I've seen hunting Illinois. Not even a distant 5th place finish. Not record book bucks or any of that. Just bucks over 3 years old. Maybe in other parts of the state but for sure not my county.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 2, 2023 20:10:50 GMT -5
I have faith OBR and firearms season remain same for 23-24.
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Post by jtkelly on Feb 2, 2023 20:13:34 GMT -5
This is the exact carbon copy of how the conversations went back when OBR was up fer discussions. Depending on which forum you were on depended on how the conversations went. Some for it. But to me it seemed like more against. Guys got banned left and right cause they didn't know how to control their internet flex. How many guys who were dead head against OBR still are against it? Me. I was and still am DEAD AGAINST IT. Yep, was then and still am.
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Post by welder on Feb 2, 2023 20:13:55 GMT -5
I bet you fellas wish I would go back to killing birds don't ya. The interesting thing was nobody showed to the meeting to disagree with OBR. Then fellars wondered how it passed. Look up on here when they held the DNR meetings to shut down waterfowl hunting here on the river. I went to a meeting here and jumped all up and down at them people. The only 2 people there to speak up for hunting was me and my bud. They had a room full of people against hunting there. It's always the group that speaks the loudest... I was working second shift at the time....
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 2, 2023 20:22:05 GMT -5
I bet you fellas wish I would go back to killing birds don't ya. The interesting thing was nobody showed to the meeting to disagree with OBR. Then fellars wondered how it passed. Look up on here when they held the DNR meetings to shut down waterfowl hunting here on the river. I went to a meeting here and jumped all up and down at them people. The only 2 people there to speak up for hunting was me and my bud. They had a room full of people against hunting there. It's always the group that speaks the loudest... I was working second shift at the time.... I took off work the day of the summer study meeting to shutdown waterfowl here...
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Post by greghopper on Feb 2, 2023 20:24:05 GMT -5
I have faith OBR and firearms season remain same for 23-24. Never been a state go to a OBR then go back to 2 bucks…. I believe things are safe for many moons to come! You always have naysayers….
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 2, 2023 20:24:07 GMT -5
I have faith OBR and firearms season remain same for 23-24. I don't see where OBR will change. And I don't predict anything changing with firearms for 2 maybe 3 more seasons. But it's coming...
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Post by hornzilla on Feb 2, 2023 20:29:26 GMT -5
You can have a 2nd buck with gun... Just only if you can get it in 7 days... Sounds good. 7 days for archery as well. Starting October 1st. And to make it easy to remember gun November 1st.
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