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Post by (Not Ronald) Reagan on Feb 1, 2023 11:59:09 GMT -5
This may be a convoluted title, but how many people are truly deterred by the laws/punishments that we have established? We always see stories of poaching but is there a way to decrease this further? For my college thesis I did a study of this in third world countries, but I want to know what y'all think about this.
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Post by jjas on Feb 1, 2023 12:04:10 GMT -5
How would/did you propose to decrease it further? Do you think the existing laws are a deterrent? Do you think the punishments should be more severe? If so, should the punishments be more severe financially or via jail time?
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Post by greghopper on Feb 1, 2023 12:09:41 GMT -5
May want to define “Poaching” being it a broad term IMO!
Folks going to jail for 1 fish over the limit or shooting a deer few minutes before or after legal light?
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 1, 2023 12:09:46 GMT -5
Wrist slap punishment is not a deterrent. Judges don’t consider wildlife crimes seriously enough
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Post by (Not Ronald) Reagan on Feb 1, 2023 12:19:42 GMT -5
May want to define “Poaching” being it a broad term IMO! Folks going to jail for 1 fish over the limit or shooting a deer few minutes before or after legal light? You're right, what I focused on was the illegal taking or harvesting of any natural resource. So more so on how people are taking an animal/endangered species.
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Post by (Not Ronald) Reagan on Feb 1, 2023 12:30:47 GMT -5
How would/did you propose to decrease it further? Do you think the existing laws are a deterrent? Do you think the punishments should be more severe? If so, should they be more secure financially or via jail time? The problem here is that is poaching here in the states in terms of deer is that it doesn't get nearly the publicity because deer aren't endangered. Poaching is one of the top three largest international crimes (gun sales and human trafficking round it out). I can't speak for here on a small scale, but for somewhere like Africa/South America its mostly organized crime... it is rarely one person acting alone. The lack of secure borders and finding basically create pathways for international crime groups to come in and do as they please. It may sound basic, but in countries like that securing the border and monitoring corrupt governments is key. It gets muddy when Joe and Bob are going down the road with a spotlight and a rifle shooting a target buck. Jail time could be an answer, but people don't realize a lot of jails/prisons spend up to $100,000 to incarcerate inmates. Deterring Bob and Joe can be tough, how many of these fines are paid? In my opinion the the fines should be steeper and equipment confiscation should be much tougher and more strict. Once someone sees their buddy pay upwards of $10,000 and lose their guns and ATV, it should be a good start.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 1, 2023 12:33:34 GMT -5
Wrist slap punishment is not a deterrent. Judges don’t consider wildlife crimes seriously enough Somewhat like driving infractions Or traffic laws.
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Post by boonechaser on Feb 1, 2023 13:15:40 GMT -5
Punishment should always fit the crime. 1.) 1st offense vs. multiple offenses 2.) Minor or major violation etc., I do see and hear of more poaching cases since IDNR has went to telecheck during deer season. Having access to harvest information faster is a valuable tool for CO's.
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Post by huntsemall on Feb 1, 2023 14:32:09 GMT -5
Just my opinion.....before we get to the actual punishment, as Woody pointed out, the county prosecutors need to make these violations a higher priority. I know in my DNR years there were COs putting in alot of time in paperwork involved to present the case to the prosecutor only to have it pushed to a low priority or to not even pursue. If it did make it to the next level, the judges need to look at it with a higher importance as well. Punishment......IMO, hit em in the pocket book as well take their equipment which in some cases may hurt em more than fines, especially if they don't have the money. Long time to get blood from a turnip. Also agree....punishment = to crime commtted.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 1, 2023 14:56:27 GMT -5
Example - We had a one time poster on here that went by YaNvrNo that posted a picture of a very nice buck. Come to find out that he killed it illegaly with a rifle (pre-rifle legal date) and did not have a deer license. IOW - he poached it. When it was brought to light he deleted his account. CO John Deem (Greendeem on here) busted him. The judge let him off with a very light slap on the wrist and even let him keep the buck's antlers and the rifle. Not much of a deterrent ?
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Post by BigJLocke on Feb 1, 2023 14:59:11 GMT -5
I’m going to be perfectly honest right now. If there were more opportunity for people to hunt legally, they probably would. Not everyone can drive 10 hours to a spot of public lands that will surely be over run with every Tom Dick and Jose that owns a shotgun. I’m not saying I would ever spotlight or go to someone’s private land and poach a deer on their land, because whether it be morals or ethics, I’m not about that life. But some people don’t see it like that. Of there were more hunting opportunities, I bet the poaching (at least in the US) would slow down.
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Post by pigeonflier on Feb 1, 2023 15:00:50 GMT -5
I may or may not have bent a rule before... But I'll never tell...
Internet fame will get a fella into trouble. You see it all the time. What's that couples name that just got the charges brought on them. All for internet fame. Look up Bowmars..
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Post by (Not Ronald) Reagan on Feb 1, 2023 15:53:00 GMT -5
I may or may not have bent a rule before... But I'll never tell... Internet fame will get a fella into trouble. You see it all the time. What's that couples name that just got the charges brought on them. All for internet fame. Look up Bowmars.. You'd be shocked how many bend the rules or exploit the system...
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Post by onebentarrow on Feb 2, 2023 0:39:34 GMT -5
How would/did you propose to decrease it further? Do you think the existing laws are a deterrent? Do you think the punishments should be more severe? If so, should the punishments be more severe financially or via jail time? To me there is no cut and dried answer. There are different kinds of poaching (that definition being taking game not in compliance with the stated laws) if a guy screws up and had no intention of doing any thing wrong then there should be some leanyensee in the punishment. Maby a warning for screwing up or small fine. Now if someone intentionally disregards the set laws ie taking over limit of fish, taking to many deer,spotlighting deer things of that nature the punishment should be fairly harsh and based on the amount of disregard. By that I mean the guy that takes 1 deer over limit should not be punished like a guy that was jacklighting and killed 5. Now here is where I go off the deep end. Any one that poaches for profit (the guide,the youtube star,the guy that sells meat or horns) Should be fined an amount larger than the total profit gained from the act of poaching. So if you kill a big deer and make 50000 from tv,10000 from youtube 20000 from sponsors 10000 from speaking fees you have made minimum 90k from that act. I feel that person should get hit with about 150k fine and have every piece of equipment used in that incident forfeited. I mean everything. Cameras gun cars computers 4 wheelers camping gear you name it. Make it so it is NOT profitable. As for jail time. The guy that is jacklighting has no regard for the law,any law, is jail time appropriate? probally but I do not like jail time cause it cost me money and generally does no good. I think house arrest would be a better option along with forfeiture of truck and gun. Like I stated. Poaching is not a cut and dried deal. There needs to be leeway in the required punishment but also the availability to hand out a large /fine to those who deserved them. Onebentarrow
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Post by span870 on Feb 2, 2023 7:46:29 GMT -5
If you kill someone the actual punishment can be your own death. How many murders are still committed every year?
Ask your local county prosecutor how many fines are actually levied and collected on.
Jails and prisons are overflowing with inmates now. Do we actually have room for Billy Bob to be housed?
Take someone's truck and rifle and hammer them with debt when the local child molester or rapist gets minimal jail time or fine.
Justice reform is what is needed. To a hunter poaching an animal is important. To the average citizen, they really could care less. It also matters to a hunter what is taken. Most lose their mind if one person shoots one 200" deer illegally and gets caught. Throw the book at him. Send him to jail. Let someone post about someone shooting 100 squirrel over their limit. Would most even comment on the article?
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Post by welder on Feb 2, 2023 9:04:54 GMT -5
If you kill someone the actual punishment can be your own death. How many murders are still committed every year? Ask your local county prosecutor how many fines are actually levied and collected on. Jails and prisons are overflowing with inmates now. Do we actually have room for Billy Bob to be housed? Take someone's truck and rifle and hammer them with debt when the local child molester or rapist gets minimal jail time or fine. Justice reform is what is needed. To a hunter poaching an animal is important. To the average citizen, they really could care less. It also matters to a hunter what is taken. Most lose their mind if one person shoots one 200" deer illegally and gets caught. Throw the book at him. Send him to jail. Let someone post about someone shooting 100 squirrel over their limit. Would most even comment on the article? Excellent post!
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