|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Oct 6, 2021 8:31:24 GMT -5
GOOD THREAD!!
|
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Oct 6, 2021 8:38:56 GMT -5
A lifeline, when properly used, will prevent a fall but you are a very wise man to ask how to recover after the fall. Most people never seem to consider how they will recover after the fall. What's the point of having a lifeline save you from a fall if you are then going to cut the rope and hope for the best? It is easy to say you will keep your tree safety setup free from excessive slack for a quick recovery back to your stand but stuff happens. What about a situation where a person has a medical event where they pass out and fall from the stand? Hanging from a typical harness, aka suspension trauma, will kill you in a short period of time. I have read that as little as 10 minutes of hanging can be fatal. Many harnesses come with a length of strap with loops on each end of the strap. you can take the strap and girth hitch it around your harness at the part of the harness that goes around your waist and place a foot in the other loop and step into it. This will take pressure off of your legs allowing blood to flow and preventing suspension trauma. Hopefully, you can do this until help arrives. If your harness did not come with one, you can make one to carry with you. One way to get down is to keep a long, properly tied loop of the correct type of rope to use as another prusik knot that you attach to the lifeline and put your foot in taking pressure off the harness prusik so you can lower it some. My suggestion is to get yourself a Treestand Wingman. If used properly your problem of self recovery is solved. treestandwingman.com/buy-treestand-wingman-now/treestand-wingman-black-out-series/I really don't understand why there are not more of these descender type systems available. One very important thing to consider when using a lifeline is to never keep your hand on the prusik knot while you are moving up or down the tree. Always make your move, stop and then adjust the prusik knot while stationary then remove your hand from the prusik knot before making another move. If you fall with your hand on the knot, it will not grip the rope and will slip. I will get off my soapbox now.  I hope this helps and be safe out there guys and gals! They make Industrial descenders they aren't cheap but work great. Most hunting descenders look to be used in the fixed position IMO |
|
|
|
Post by parrothead on Oct 6, 2021 8:42:13 GMT -5
When I am set up. My knot is as far above my head as I can reach so if my bottom would go out there is not at 1 to 2 foot fall. Even though it would catch me I bet that would be scary half second fall with me screaming like a small school girl
|
|
|
|
Post by jjas on Oct 6, 2021 8:45:19 GMT -5
Two quick points...
Safety harnesses have an expiration date. Do most people adhere to that and throw them away? I don't know, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Finally (and I'm sure most here know this), if you fall that harness needs to be replaced.
|
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Oct 6, 2021 8:46:30 GMT -5
In trying to find a video showing how the Prussic knot works I saw all kinds of mistakes being made. Most apparent was climbing with their hand on the knot. Two problems with that - 1) You can not have a three pointe contact with the ladder or climbing sticks at all times. That can set you up for a fall. 2) If you fall with your hand on the knot your instinct will be to hold onto the rope/knot. The knot will not tighten on the rope and down you will go. Another was using the side rails to hang onto. It is much better to climb using the ladder rungs or steps. If you slip you can hang on better to the steps/rungs than the vertical rails. Yup, when descending the prussic knot is moved and then not touched EVERY time. When ascending I do the same thing and like to always grip hand around the rope and push up, not actually grabbing the knot itself on the off chance I fall or slip when holding it to move it. As others said tying off the lifeline at the base so it isn't just a loose rope helps significantly. This thread just made me a safer hunter. I will now on make sure my phone is on me all the time hunting and not in my by bag that is hanging off the stand. I think most times it is on me. You never know what might happen. I did have one stand a day after hunting get hit by lightning. It destroyed my stand and tree. For the cellphone I recommend never putting it in your front upper leg pockets. Most fall restraint harnesses have leg straps that are going to be tight right through there. Depending if you wear your leg slots over your pants, your phone may not even be able to be pulled. I always try to keep phone in cargo or lower leg pockets if pants have them or in my upper body attire somewhere. Just something to keep in mind. |
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Oct 6, 2021 9:03:09 GMT -5
Two quick points... Safety harnesses have an expiration date. Do most people adhere to that and throw them away? I don't know, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Finally (and I'm sure most here know this), if you fall that harness needs to be replaced. Also get a harnesses with Shock-Absorbing Lanyard or use a Shock-Absorbing Lanyard with your harnesses! |
|
|
|
Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Oct 6, 2021 9:15:34 GMT -5
Is there any statics on what stands type people fell from? Climber vs. Hang-on vs. Ladder vs Saddle vs Box stand.
I would think this data might be out there. My guess is ladder is the safest, Box stands, Hang-on, Climber to Saddle.
|
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Oct 6, 2021 9:21:42 GMT -5
Is there any statics on what stands type people fell from? Climber vs. Hang-on vs. Ladder vs Saddle. I would think this data might be out there. My guess is ladder is the safest, then Hang-on, Climber to Saddle. Zero clue and would love to see or read whatever anyone finds. I do know sadly quite a few folks that have experienced falls. Of those none of them were climbers, three were ladders and three were hang on styles. None were from stand failures, all were from improper or sheer avoidance of safety equipment. Two were the types that waited to hook up at stand and either slipped getting into the stand or climbing up/down. The other four were sheer lack of harnesses and fell out of their stands due to dozing off and falling. *edited, I texted the one guy and he was a ladder which means i know 3 of each type. |
|
|
|
Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Oct 6, 2021 9:23:55 GMT -5
Is there any statics on what stands type people fell from? Climber vs. Hang-on vs. Ladder vs Saddle. I would think this data might be out there. My guess is ladder is the safest, then Hang-on, Climber to Saddle. Zero clue and would love to see or read whatever anyone finds. I do know sadly quite a few folks that have experienced falls. Of those none of them were climbers, two were ladders and four were hang on styles. None were from stand failures, all were from improper or sheer avoidance of safety equipment. Two were the types that waited to hook up at stand and either slipped getting into the stand or climbing up/down. The other four were sheer lack of harnesses and fell out of their stands due to dozing off and falling. Yes, I was looking more at the stand device verses all the other stuff. Like ladder you step forward to sit, hang-on to the side, climbers, turn around etc.. |
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Oct 6, 2021 9:24:06 GMT -5
Is there any statics on what stands type people fell from? Climber vs. Hang-on vs. Ladder vs Saddle. I would think this data might be out there. My guess is ladder is the safest, then Hang-on, Climber to Saddle. More accidents happen with Hang-on's then any other would be my bet... |
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Oct 6, 2021 9:29:07 GMT -5
Few things found: www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/tsri18.pdf - state specific report www.grandviewoutdoors.com/big-game-hunting/whitetail-deer/statistics-say-falling-treestand is a 2018 story with this interesting bit: "This next piece of data really surprised me. As I’ve gotten older, ladder stands have become my stand of choice. They sure seem safer to get into and out of than hang-on stands. And according to this data, they are safer, but not by much for bowhunters. Thirty-three percent of all falls by bowhunters came from hang-on stands, while 32 percent came from ladder stands. So much for the myth that you don’t need a safety restraint when using ladder stands. For gun hunters, things were a bit different. Forty-four percent of falls were from hang-ons, while 21 percent were from ladders. Climbing stand-users also fell. Twenty percent of bowhunter falls were from climbers, and 26 percent of gun hunter falls were from climbers. Obviously hunters using climbers should use a lifeline. Given all this, what is your overall risk of having a fall that requires medical attention when using treestands, ladder stands or climbers if you bow hunt and gun hunt? The researchers put together some interesting data and determined the following. If you hunted for only one year, your odds of a serious stand accident are one out of 1,010 hunters. If you hunt for 10 years, your odds go up to one of 100. Hunt 20 years with both bow and gun and your chances of falling are one in 50. Considering how many of those falls end up in paralysis, these are not good odds. If you deer hunt with bow and gun for 30 years and you haven’t worn a safety restraint during that time then your odds of having a fall that requires medical treatment are one out of 33 hunters. For deer hunters that have hunted 40 years with bow or gun the odds are one in 25." NDA has an article on it as well: www.deerassociation.com/treestand-accidents-can-we-stop-the-insanity/^^^ That includes "home made" as a separate type, which I'd have combined and thought of those as ladder style as they normally are. Which would place ladders higher rate of issues than hang ons surprisingly. |
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Oct 6, 2021 9:29:34 GMT -5
I think the ladder stand issues being what they are is because many think "its a ladder stand, I am fine".
|
|
|
|
Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Oct 6, 2021 9:39:02 GMT -5
This data is interesting:
Bow hunting
33% hang-on
32% Ladder Stand
Gun hunting
44% hang-on
21% Ladder Stand
My guess the smaller platform for some hang-on's and the kick of the gun is the cause. That's the only thing I could think of.
|
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Oct 6, 2021 9:45:05 GMT -5
This data is interesting: Bow hunting 33% hang-on 32% Ladder Stand Gun hunting 44% hang-on 21% Ladder Stand My guess the smaller platform and the kick of the gun is the cause. That's the only thing I could think of. As stated "hang-on" are top of the list....go figure! |
|
|
|
Post by jjas on Oct 6, 2021 9:52:41 GMT -5
This data is interesting: Bow hunting 33% hang-on 32% Ladder Stand Gun hunting 44% hang-on 21% Ladder Stand My guess the smaller platform for some hang-on's and the kick of the gun is the cause. That's the only thing I could think of. I think the combination of a smaller platform and people paying more attention to moving around to get a clean shot @ the deer and less attention to where there feet are would cause more falls. |
|
|
|
Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Oct 6, 2021 10:01:26 GMT -5
This data is interesting: Bow hunting 33% hang-on 32% Ladder Stand Gun hunting 44% hang-on 21% Ladder Stand My guess the smaller platform and the kick of the gun is the cause. That's the only thing I could think of. As stated "hang-on" are top of the list....go figure! It only mention 2 types . I wash for bow hunters! My bet is the saddle as the most dangerous. |
|
|
|
Post by genesis273 on Oct 6, 2021 10:13:54 GMT -5
I'm definitely enjoying all the conversation |
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Oct 6, 2021 10:15:41 GMT -5
This data is interesting: Bow hunting 33% hang-on 32% Ladder Stand Gun hunting 44% hang-on 21% Ladder Stand My guess the smaller platform and the kick of the gun is the cause. That's the only thing I could think of. As stated "hang-on" are top of the list....go figure! Yet the larger study I posted by NDA stated following types: Hang ons - 31% Ladder - 20% Climber - 25% Home Made - 20% Other - 4% That home made line I would place serious money is majority "ladder style" I know that what we used to build and use when I was little. |
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Oct 6, 2021 10:26:42 GMT -5
As stated "hang-on" are top of the list....go figure! Yet the larger study I posted by NDA stated following types: Hang ons - 31% Ladder - 20% Climber - 25% Home Made - 20% Other - 4% That home made line I would place serious money is majority "ladder style" I know that what we used to build and use when I was little. Yep… Top Three are the most used for sure!  |
|
|
|
Post by genesis273 on Oct 6, 2021 10:26:55 GMT -5
Two quick points... Safety harnesses have an expiration date. Do most people adhere to that and throw them away? I don't know, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Finally (and I'm sure most here know this), if you fall that harness needs to be replaced. Great point. I'm not sure when my Gorilla harness expired but, I'm getting a new one anyhow. Thanks for the expiration reminder. |
|
