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Post by boonechaser on Sept 8, 2020 20:43:06 GMT -5
I'll 2nd Ty's mention of good fencing or your simply wasting your time. FALL is aalso a much better planting time than spring from my experience.
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Post by esshup on Sept 9, 2020 5:08:38 GMT -5
Little reminder that the actual cost of the tree is not the cost of it. Let me explain. Survival of a tree depends on a plethora of things, but the one we can control is pressure from critters and their mouths. I order less trees now than I used to, but spend more than I used to. Why? Fencing materials. Now don't get me wrong I grab free posts and any kind of fence, but proper fencing - using solid metal posts or actual treated posts with tall 4 foot minimum (prefer 5) heavy fences that no animal can mess with it is WELL WORTH THEIR COST. The only thing that can take the tree out then is if weather doesn't cooperate or disease hits - but one can haul water, and one can spray for diseases. Stark Bros has been very good to me over the years for a specific mention of a source, but I've bought from state nurseries, Lowes...even Walmart over the years. Proper protection is the CRUCIAL aspect to ensuring the investment is worth it. I believe this more than anything else (with the exception of watering) plays the most important part of getting saplings to survive. A customer had planted close to 1,000 saplings from the state around his ponds 2 years ago. Depending on the pond, he had between 20% and 80% success rate after year 1. BUT I would say over 90% of the saplings showed signs of being browsed. He did not water them, nor did he protect them from the deer or other wildlife with any sort of fending, all he did is spray them once in October with a blood based deer repellent. The area with 20% success rate was a drier area although there was an area that was wetter (occasional standing water of a few inches) and that had 0% success with Swamp White Oak saplings. Was it the saplings or the conditions? Hard to tell. All these trees were from the State.
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Sept 9, 2020 5:44:34 GMT -5
Yep you got a cage those trees. I learned the hard way this spring by not wrapping them and they got browsed right away. They came back nice with new shoots. Last year the bucks had a field day rubbing them.
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Post by scrub-buster on Sept 9, 2020 6:18:22 GMT -5
I planned on putting fences around them and figuring out a way to water them. It's close enough to the house I could just stretch out a couple lengths of hose. I'll start getting the fencing supplies ready. I have a lot of T-posts already.
What about spacing, how far apart should I plant them? Should I alternate tree types or keep the same trees grouped together?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 6:39:53 GMT -5
Deer like to browse so I think place apart might be better. This way they walk around a little more. Going from tree to tree. I think I would put 3 or 5 of different together and then that group with spacing. This way one of the trees are producing. If oaks maybe 30-50 ft and fruit around 15-25 ft. Then maybe something like 30-50 yards per group. Since yours is long and skinny maybe three groups. Bringing, middle, and end. Maybe a food plot between the groups.
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Post by boonechaser on Sept 9, 2020 7:43:21 GMT -5
I would add that unless your younger you are planting for future generation with most trees. Oaks (Red/whites) take 25-30 years to produce. (Swamp oaks, a white oak produce 15-20) Persimmon 25-30. Apple's and pear hybrids can produce annually but generally 5-7 to produce a good crop. I try to plant 6-12 trees annually as well but also select harvest annually off our farm. By value White oaks and black walnuts are most valuable for future timber value.
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Post by scrub-buster on Sept 9, 2020 7:58:12 GMT -5
I would add that unless your younger you are planting for future generation with most trees. Oaks (Red/whites) take 25-30 years to produce. (Swamp oaks, a white oak produce 15-20) Persimmon 25-30. Apple's and pear hybrids can produce annually but generally 5-7 to produce a good crop. I try to plant 6-12 trees annually as well but also select harvest annually off our farm. By value White oaks and black walnuts are most valuable for future timber value. I'm 40. I might get to see some production before I kick the bucket. Maybe I should focus on apple and pear trees.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 8:36:06 GMT -5
I would add that unless your younger you are planting for future generation with most trees. Oaks (Red/whites) take 25-30 years to produce. (Swamp oaks, a white oak produce 15-20) Persimmon 25-30. Apple's and pear hybrids can produce annually but generally 5-7 to produce a good crop. I try to plant 6-12 trees annually as well but also select harvest annually off our farm. By value White oaks and black walnuts are most valuable for future timber value. I'm 40. I might get to see some production before I kick the bucket. Maybe I should focus on apple and pear trees. My white oaks started around 15 years producing and good crops at 20 years. So by 60 good acorn corp. Good soil helps. I did notice that even though the white oak mass crop is every 4-6 years it always has some every year. Pawpaw is another good option. Chestnuts produce in 5 years, but I have 7 or 8 that are 3 years old and still small. I'm guessing 7 or 8 years to produce.
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Post by boonechaser on Sept 9, 2020 9:27:26 GMT -5
I would add that unless your younger you are planting for future generation with most trees. Oaks (Red/whites) take 25-30 years to produce. (Swamp oaks, a white oak produce 15-20) Persimmon 25-30. Apple's and pear hybrids can produce annually but generally 5-7 to produce a good crop. I try to plant 6-12 trees annually as well but also select harvest annually off our farm. By value White oaks and black walnuts are most valuable for future timber value. I'm 40. I might get to see some production before I kick the bucket. Maybe I should focus on apple and pear trees. LOL... Hear ya. I like the Swamp Oak Variety White Oaks as they are fast growers and produce mast quicker. I have also Planted some Hybrid Chestnuts that produce a few nuts after couple years. ( Bought from Morse Nursery online). Deer love them.
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Post by jbird on Sept 9, 2020 11:10:29 GMT -5
So it sounds like you want an orchard type setting. In that case I would still plant trees and shrubs that have some appeal to deer....hard mast, soft mast or even browsing. Oaks, chestnuts, fruit trees (apple, pear, crab apple, plum, persimmons) and then shrubs like elderberry, DCO, hazelnut, and the like all come to mind. I would plant on at least an 8 foot spacing....maybe even more to provide the room needed for the mature plant. You will have to plan it out to some extent to ensure you are giving each plant the sun it needs as well. Indiana State Nursery is a good source for bare root saplings. I use a source called Turkey Creek Nursery for bare root large fruit trees and have great luck with them. Missouri Department of Conservation also has a web site where you can get different shrubs and the like as well. It's also not hard to grow plants form acorns and the like to reduce the cost and increase the numbers as well. Just keep in mind that if you keep this area open - it's use will be mostly at night AND if you have a dog, your looking at a lot of barking. To increase use and reduce noise....you may want a screen of some sort between your new orchard and the house.
Just as a point of reference I have a neighbor that converted a corn field into a plantation of oaks. The first 5 to 10 years was great because of the cover it provided.....now the oaks are bigger and have filled out and there is a very poor understory in there now.....without any work on their part. You can drive an ATV around in there now with no problems. Bad thing is there is no food for the deer because the trees still are not producing mast yet.....15~20 years later.
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Post by jbird on Sept 9, 2020 11:18:33 GMT -5
The State tree form www.in.gov/dnr/forestry/3620.htmalso to give you an idea on quantity.....an 8 x 8 spacing comes to 680 trees an acre! Make sure you plant species that like the soil/site conditions as well....they will grow much faster that way.
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Post by scrub-buster on Sept 9, 2020 11:23:16 GMT -5
No worries about dogs barking at deer. We don't have any windows facing that area. The nearby woods are very thick with plenty of cover. Most of our property is thick and tangled. It's so thick I sighted my rifle at 50 yards and have never shot a deer with it past 25 yards. We have cover and water. Our main food sources are clover, acorns, and browse. I really think adding a new food source would really draw them in.
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