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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 15:40:55 GMT -5
I could easily imagine a landowner who isn't up to no good refusing to allow strangers onto his property. There could be a great many valid reasons, but the real point is, a landowner doesn't have to have, or offer any reason at all. I'm not a landowner as much as I wish I were, but it seems a lot of people have little to no regard for a property owners rights. I've seen guys who literally do nothing all deer season but run trespassers off their property. It's an epidemic, and it appears even IF you can get a Sheriff's deputy or CO out to deal with it, the courts don't take it very seriously. I fully understand irate landowners. This is a HUGE part of my issues with this. Before I owned land I leased a 50 acre lot for the sole purpose of deer hunting. Before the season even started I was chasing off trespassers who lived nearby and felt they had the "right" to use the woods in question for any number of activities. One neighbor walked her dogs through the woods during hunting season. When confronted she stated that she had been walking her dogs through these woods for years and had "not bothered anybody". She told me, in no uncertain terms that she, "...saw no reason to stop", even after I explained that I paid good money for exclusive rights to this land during the hunting season.
I informed the property owner and he said he had no way to keep others off his land, and suggested I call the conservation officer. I posted no trespassing signs, with the owners permission, where people were entering the woods. These signs were ignored. I found a guy I knew lived on the property boundary actively hunting during the season. I explained to him that I had leased the land. He told me he had been hunting this property for more than a decade and he wasn't about to stop now.
I called the local DNR officer who met me at the property. I showed him the house that the hunter had entered less than 30 minutes before. The C.O. knocked on the door and confronted the hunter. He stood there and lied to the C.O., telling him he had not seen the signs.
The C.O. told me there was nothing I could do about it, no recourse whatsoever. I could not PROVE that the hunter had seen the signs, and even if he had, I had no PROOF that he could read them!
I paid $500 to lease 50 acres of ground, and it was a complete waste of money. Not one single day went by during that hunting season that I did not find at least one trespasser on that property, one day I found 3 people, all hunting. They said they were just out plinking, all dressed out in hunting garb.
May as well not even have a law if it's not going to be enforced.
And it's my experience, and my understanding from talking with others, that your experience is far from uncommon.
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Post by welder on Feb 15, 2020 15:41:06 GMT -5
Definitely some strong opinions on this issue. As I earlier stated, I am not advocating ANYTHING. I clearly see both sides - I have been on both sides. Hunting has taken a turn in the last 25 years. Nobody seems to be able to get along, which is very unfortunate.
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Post by firstwd on Feb 15, 2020 16:03:44 GMT -5
Trespassers aren't the hardest to deal with. Just put a few empty beer cans in the bed of their truck along with a couple cold ones in a foam cooler with at least one open about half full. Call the vehicle in as suspicious and let the county sheriff's deputies take their course.
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Post by beermaker on Feb 15, 2020 16:20:19 GMT -5
Why would someone deny another person the chance to retrieve game from their property? Just asking because its inconeivable to me. Unless, of course, the landowner is up to no good. There was a guy in rural Holland that was known for being stringent about property lines and denying access to hunters. He was eventually arrested for having an elaborate marijuana growing operation on his property. A few years later, his a-hole brother who had the same mentality was arrested for the same shenanigans. Methinks I know who yo are posting about.. I'm not going to name names, but a few hints. The brother is an accomplished bow hunter (ethics have been questioned), once the top "bare-fingers" bow competitor around, and a mountain of a man.
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Post by featherduster on Feb 15, 2020 16:27:12 GMT -5
The way I look at it it's all BUDD'S fault for coming up with this cockamamie idea of going on private land with permission or with a law to protect you.
Come on Budd if we didn't have trespassers we wouldn't have anything to talk about like trail cameras and tree stands being stolen.
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Post by esshup on Feb 15, 2020 16:37:07 GMT -5
mgderf:
That's exactly the same scenario I was faced with except it was a clients place and I didn't pay to hunt. BUT I was the only one that had permission. I was told that if I had the owner list me as his "agent" then I could do more legally.
What I was told to do is call the Sheriff if they are just trespassing and the CO if they were hunting. Get the law out there and they would run a wants and warrants on them. Once that happened, I could get the persons information and file a restraining order Keeping them off the property. Then all I had to do was get proof that they violated the restraining order and they would be prosecuted. A PITA but that was the only way that I could do anything about it - that's what the sheriff deputy said.
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Post by budd on Feb 15, 2020 16:37:19 GMT -5
The way I look at it it's all BUDD'S fault for coming up with this cock a mammy idea of going on private land with permission or with a law to protect you. Come on Budd if we didn't have trespassers we wouldn't have anything to talk about like trail cameras and tree stands being stolen. Your welcome.
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Post by esshup on Feb 15, 2020 16:43:25 GMT -5
Trespassers aren't the hardest to deal with. Just put a few empty beer cans in the bed of their truck along with a couple cold ones in a foam cooler with at least one open about half full. Call the vehicle in as suspicious and let the county sheriff's deputies take their course. A buddy owns a large farm. Found a car parked on one access lane to the farm. Locked, but he looked and found a set of keys stashed (either by the gas cap or on top of a tire, I forget). He threw them as far into the woods as he could, then called the sheriff and then had the sheriff call a wrecker. People came out of the woods when the wrecker showed up, they were just "going for a walk" (I'm guessing mushroom hunting). Since the keys were gone and the car was on private property that wasn't theirs, it was towed and that was the last time he saw that car there - they weren't happy at all. Too bad.
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Post by budd on Feb 15, 2020 16:50:25 GMT -5
In Indiana, I would agree with the rite to retrieve your "hunting" dog. Not so much to retrieve game, that one would be hard to convince if there was actually a wounded game animal being tracked.
Where I live I totally stand behind this law, there are a numerous amount of small 40 acre lots surrounded by 100's of acres of state/federal land that belong to people from the cities that only venture north for opening weekend of deer season. Now if my hounds or wounded game would get on this property it would take me forever to find a number for this land owner. If people still only used land line telephones it may be easier. And with hardly no road systems to cut dogs off it would be near impossible to do so.
Regardless of where this law is it would be taken advantage of, you all dont have this law and you still cant stop trespassing.
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Post by jjas on Feb 15, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -5
In the end, the law is the law.
It's a good reason to get to know your neighbors and try to cultivate a relationship with them (if possible) that allows reciprocity when it comes to game retrieval.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 17:43:08 GMT -5
mgderf: That's exactly the same scenario I was faced with except it was a clients place and I didn't pay to hunt. BUT I was the only one that had permission. I was told that if I had the owner list me as his "agent" then I could do more legally. What I was told to do is call the Sheriff if they are just trespassing and the CO if they were hunting. Get the law out there and they would run a wants and warrants on them. Once that happened, I could get the persons information and file a restraining order Keeping them off the property. Then all I had to do was get proof that they violated the restraining order and they would be prosecuted. A PITA but that was the only way that I could do anything about it - that's what the sheriff deputy said. I had a Putnam County Sheriffs deputy and the CO out to the farm where I deer hunt after my ladderstands were vandalized. They both told me if I wasn't the landowner that there was nothing I could do personally, that the landowner would have to press charges, otherwise, they weren't going to waste their time. I don't lease the ground for hunting, I've simply been given permission to hunt there, and I've been told I'm the only one with permission to be there. My buddy and his wife were there at the farm one morning, mushroom hunting , and the guy who lives in the property directly adjacent to the west was in the woods and actually confronted them, accusing them of being tresspassers. That's how bold these idiots are. I've yet to run into them there, but I hope I do run into them there one time. We're going to have a very adult conversation about what the circumstances are going to be if they're on that property again. But, to what was said earlier about there being strong opinions on this issue, I would agree and appropriately so. How would you like it if, as a property owner, you were told that you couldn't control who may come into YOUR property?
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 15, 2020 18:27:53 GMT -5
Methinks I know who yo are posting about.. I'm not going to name names, but a few hints. The brother is an accomplished bow hunter (ethics have been questioned), once the top "bare-fingers" bow competitor around, and a mountain of a man. Yep.. that be him.. I shot 3D with and against him. He would beat me most of the time.. Shocked me when he got busted for growing weed...
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Post by firstwd on Feb 15, 2020 19:32:06 GMT -5
I spoke to my local warden about the problem with the coyote runners trespassing. He explained to me that they are within their rights to go on to private ground and retrieve their hound, and that can't be denied. It's treated just like as if it was loose livestock. You have a right to go retrieve your loose animals. Now, they probably can't go on your ground carrying a gun and can't shoot a treed coon out, etc. or they could be charged with hunting without permission, but they can go retrieve their animals. What if said dogs got into one of the many game farms or high fence hunting operations?
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Post by welder on Feb 15, 2020 21:55:13 GMT -5
mgderf: That's exactly the same scenario I was faced with except it was a clients place and I didn't pay to hunt. BUT I was the only one that had permission. I was told that if I had the owner list me as his "agent" then I could do more legally. What I was told to do is call the Sheriff if they are just trespassing and the CO if they were hunting. Get the law out there and they would run a wants and warrants on them. Once that happened, I could get the persons information and file a restraining order Keeping them off the property. Then all I had to do was get proof that they violated the restraining order and they would be prosecuted. A PITA but that was the only way that I could do anything about it - that's what the sheriff deputy said. I had a Putnam County Sheriffs deputy and the CO out to the farm where I deer hunt after my ladderstands were vandalized. They both told me if I wasn't the landowner that there was nothing I could do personally, that the landowner would have to press charges, otherwise, they weren't going to waste their time. I don't lease the ground for hunting, I've simply been given permission to hunt there, and I've been told I'm the only one with permission to be there. My buddy and his wife were there at the farm one morning, mushroom hunting , and the guy who lives in the property directly adjacent to the west was in the woods and actually confronted them, accusing them of being tresspassers. That's how bold these idiots are. I've yet to run into them there, but I hope I do run into them there one time. We're going to have a very adult conversation about what the circumstances are going to be if they're on that property again. But, to what was said earlier about there being strong opinions on this issue, I would agree and appropriately so. How would you like it if, as a property owner, you were told that you couldn't control who may come into YOUR property? Since I know the laws, like it or not,if someone's dog was treed on my property, I would let the owner go get him, without calling a CO.
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Post by welder on Feb 15, 2020 21:56:35 GMT -5
In the end, the law is the law. It's a good reason to get to know your neighbors and try to cultivate a relationship with them (if possible) that allows reciprocity when it comes to game retrieval. Agree 100%.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 22:03:31 GMT -5
I had a Putnam County Sheriffs deputy and the CO out to the farm where I deer hunt after my ladderstands were vandalized. They both told me if I wasn't the landowner that there was nothing I could do personally, that the landowner would have to press charges, otherwise, they weren't going to waste their time. I don't lease the ground for hunting, I've simply been given permission to hunt there, and I've been told I'm the only one with permission to be there. My buddy and his wife were there at the farm one morning, mushroom hunting , and the guy who lives in the property directly adjacent to the west was in the woods and actually confronted them, accusing them of being tresspassers. That's how bold these idiots are. I've yet to run into them there, but I hope I do run into them there one time. We're going to have a very adult conversation about what the circumstances are going to be if they're on that property again. But, to what was said earlier about there being strong opinions on this issue, I would agree and appropriately so. How would you like it if, as a property owner, you were told that you couldn't control who may come into YOUR property? Since I know the laws, like it or not,if someone's dog was treed on my property, I would let the owner go get him, without calling a CO. I never said it wouldn't be reasonable to allow someone to get their dog. I said it's unreasonable to take away the landowners right to allow or disallow someone on their property. I do wonder though, what is the responsibility of the dogs owner to keep his animal under control and keep it off property he doesn't have permission to be on in the first place. Just curious.
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Post by budd on Feb 15, 2020 22:29:49 GMT -5
Since I know the laws, like it or not,if someone's dog was treed on my property, I would let the owner go get him, without calling a CO. I never said it wouldn't be reasonable to allow someone to get their dog. I said it's unreasonable to take away the landowners right to allow or disallow someone on their property. I do wonder though, what is the responsibility of the dogs owner to keep his animal under control and keep it off property he doesn't have permission to be on in the first place. Just curious. I know there are a few bad seeds out there but the majority of the hound hunters do try and keep there dogs on the property they turn loose on, but tell me how does, or would a night time hound hunter keep a coondog completely under control..or really any hound for that matter? They follow the scent wherever it goes, if we could just teach them damned coon to read no trespassing signs maybe. The only way to keep hounds from accidentally crossing property lines is to eliminate hound hunting all together, it happens, nothing can be done to stop it. Really dont mean to come off as a jerk but I'm very passionate about hound hunting. I'm not saying trespassing is rite by ANY means, but Im not one to loose my mind when someone jumps my fence and grabs their dog. If something gets stole or broken the first person that I'm not going to point my finger at is the hound hunter. I do agree that we dont need anymore laws that tells us what we can and cannot do or allow someone to do on our property, but I try my best to trust the honest fellow hunter to come and grab his dog/downed game off my property without contacting me if it's not to inconvenient, or impractical. A phone call or knock on the door at a later date is appreciated.
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Post by welder on Feb 15, 2020 22:40:05 GMT -5
Since I know the laws, like it or not,if someone's dog was treed on my property, I would let the owner go get him, without calling a CO. I never said it wouldn't be reasonable to allow someone to get their dog. I said it's unreasonable to take away the landowners right to allow or disallow someone on their property. I do wonder though, what is the responsibility of the dogs owner to keep his animal under control and keep it off property he doesn't have permission to be on in the first place. Just curious. In counties with a "leash law",it is illegal to let dogs run loose unattended unless it is your property or property you have permission to use. To the best of my knowledge, under hunting circumstances,if you turn loose on property you own or have permission to hunt there is no real responsibility to keep the dog off of adjacent property. The old saying goes "dogs can't read signs", this is true. That being said, hunters can read signs and unless accompanied by a CO or with landowner consent,you CANNOT trespass to retrieve your dog.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 15, 2020 23:01:01 GMT -5
I never said it wouldn't be reasonable to allow someone to get their dog. I said it's unreasonable to take away the landowners right to allow or disallow someone on their property. I do wonder though, what is the responsibility of the dogs owner to keep his animal under control and keep it off property he doesn't have permission to be on in the first place. Just curious. In counties with a "leash law",it is illegal to let dogs run loose unattended unless it is your property or property you have permission to use. To the best of my knowledge, under hunting circumstances,if you turn loose on property you own or have permission to hunt there is no real responsibility to keep the dog off of adjacent property. The old saying goes "dogs can't read signs", this is true. That being said, hunters can read signs and unless accompanied by a CO or with landowner consent,you CANNOT trespass to retrieve your dog. This^^^^^ ... it’s really fairly easy to understand but some want to make it difficult. IMO
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 23:14:34 GMT -5
I never said it wouldn't be reasonable to allow someone to get their dog. I said it's unreasonable to take away the landowners right to allow or disallow someone on their property. I do wonder though, what is the responsibility of the dogs owner to keep his animal under control and keep it off property he doesn't have permission to be on in the first place. Just curious. In counties with a "leash law",it is illegal to let dogs run loose unattended unless it is your property or property you have permission to use. To the best of my knowledge, under hunting circumstances,if you turn loose on property you own or have permission to hunt there is no real responsibility to keep the dog off of adjacent property. The old saying goes "dogs can't read signs", this is true. That being said, hunters can read signs and unless accompanied by a CO or with landowner consent,you CANNOT trespass to retrieve your dog. I thought all 92 counties in Indiana had leash laws, maybe I'm wrong. I see dogs running loose multiple times each deer season, oftentimes, they are actually hot on the heels of deer. I'm not one to do this, but I've heard some say that they have shot dogs running deer. There have also been many instances of dogs packing up and attacking people. I've been growled at by loose dogs while deer hunting, but they left. Had I been attacked of course, I would have defended myself.
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